SkippyX Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Here are the Patriots' records by year, AFC East, Outside AFC East 2018 5-1 7-4 (so far) 2017 5-1 10-3 2016 5-1 12-1 2015 4-2 9-3 2014 4-2 13-2 2013 4-2 9-3 2012 6-0 7-5 2011 5-1 10-3 2010 5-2 9-1 2009 4-2 6-5 2008 4-2 7-3 2007 6-0 12-1 2006 4-2 10-3 2005 5-1 6-6 2004 5-1 12-1 2003 5-1 12-1 2002 4-2 5-5 2001 4-2 10-3 The Purple Season they played without Brady In the seasons that are not indented they were completely dominant outside of the division. They went to 11 AFCCGs and 8 Super Bowls in those 13 seasons In the indented seasons where the AFC East propped them up, they were a total of 2-3 in the playoffs with only 1 AFCCG They got to that AFCCG because they beat the Texans who were 6-0 in the AFC South and 7-5 outside of it (including losing to the Patriots twice) If you think losing the 2012 AFCCG is what defines Brady's greatness then you are a clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 14 hours ago, childofpudding said: Since 2001, the Patriots win% vs. the Bears, Vikings and Lions is over 90%. It's like 78% vs. the Bills, Jets and Dolphins. I wish the Patriots could have switched with the Packers in 2001 so they could dominate the trash NFC North. I wish people would stop saying this. Patriots fans listen up: It's NOT about how the Patriots have played against their division rivals - all teams should lose more to their rivals than they do other teams as a percentage - because you play those teams twice a year, obviously they are going to know you better. Not only that, sometimes they will construct their team to play against yours. Why the Bills, Jets and Dolphins being historically bad over the last 20 years is a blessing for the Patriots is because it's led to automatic division titles. Has nothing to do with their winning percentage - it's because while the Patriots have been great, they've almost never had a team that was even a threat to win the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 12 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: I wish people would stop saying this. Patriots fans listen up: It's NOT about how the Patriots have played against their division rivals - all teams should lose more to their rivals than they do other teams as a percentage - because you play those teams twice a year, obviously they are going to know you better. Not only that, sometimes they will construct their team to play against yours. Why the Bills, Jets and Dolphins being historically bad over the last 20 years is a blessing for the Patriots is because it's led to automatic division titles. Has nothing to do with their winning percentage - it's because while the Patriots have been great, they've almost never had a team that was even a threat to win the division. You're making a blank statement without backing it up. The fact is that's not always true. From 2001-18, GB did about as well against their division rivals (66%) as the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (67%). PIT did better against its division rivals (71%) than the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets (68%). IND did far better against its division rivals (72%) than against the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (57%). DEN also did better against its division rivals (57%) than the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (52%). Time for a new excuse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 minutes ago, childofpudding said: You're making a blank statement without backing it up. The fact is that's not always true. From 2001-18, GB did about as well against their division rivals (66%) as the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (67%). PIT did better against its division rivals (71%) than the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets (68%). IND did far better against its division rivals (72%) than against the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (57%). DEN also did better against its division rivals (57%) than the Bills, Dolphins and Jets (52%). Time for a new excuse. I said "all teams should lose to their rivals more than they do other teams as a percentage" - should being the key word. I backed up my logic with the sentences that follow. The Jets, Bills and Dolphins have been incredibly awful over Tom Brady's career. They had a combined 57 seasons and the best QB out of that group is either Mark Sanchez or Chad Pennington. The Patriots have been great - but pretending that those teams being awful doesn't matter doesn't make sense either. The Packers, Saints and Seahawks all had chances to form a dynasty with an elite QB/coach combo - the Vikings, Falcons and Rams rose up within four years of those teams winning their super bowls and won the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 18 hours ago, Kip Smithers said: Listen it’s not THE reason why, but you’d have to be naive to act like it has not played its part. They’re a great franchise that’s probably a bigger reason but there’s no way in my eyes that had they been in the AFC North or AFC West that they would’ve gone to 8 straight championship games. No way. They could’ve gone to 5 out of 8 maybe even 6. But not 8 straight. In the AFC East, and think about this, you’re guaranteed to go at least 4-2 each year There is zero evidence to support this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CP3MVP Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 58 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: I wish people would stop saying this. Patriots fans listen up: It's NOT about how the Patriots have played against their division rivals - all teams should lose more to their rivals than they do other teams as a percentage - because you play those teams twice a year, obviously they are going to know you better. Not only that, sometimes they will construct their team to play against yours. Why the Bills, Jets and Dolphins being historically bad over the last 20 years is a blessing for the Patriots is because it's led to automatic division titles. Has nothing to do with their winning percentage - it's because while the Patriots have been great, they've almost never had a team that was even a threat to win the division. How have the bills jets and dolphins been “historically bad for 20 years”? Heck The biggest knock on the Dolphins has been mediocrity not being terrible. They basically go 8-8 every season with one of those losses being to NE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, CP3MVP said: How have the bills jets and dolphins been “historically bad for 20 years”? Heck The biggest knock on the Dolphins has been mediocrity not being terrible. They basically go 8-8 every season with one of those losses being to NE. Mediocrity year in and year out, sure. But the Dolphins have only made the playoffs three times since the Pats dynasty began, and have 0 playoff wins. The Bills have made the playoffs one time (last year) since the dynasty began. Let's stop there for a minute - while the Dolphins have rarely been a truly awful team, 0 playoff wins in 18 years is bad. Them and the Bills both. There are only three other teams to have 0 playoff wins in the same span: Browns, Lions and Bengals - but the Bengals have at least made the playoffs on several occasions and have been better than the Dolphins and Bills over that time. The Jets are where you're hanging your hat for the AFC East not being terrible - they've made the playoffs six times, and actually won six playoff games. But in this time period, their best QBs were Pennington and Sanchez. Despite the Jets actually making the AFCCG twice, did anyone actually see them winning a super bowl? With Sanchez? Coming into every season, the Patriots never once faced a threat to the division crown except for the year Brady went down. Now consider that, since 2004, the Patriots have rarely had the best team in the NFL going into the playoffs. So it's not like the Jets/Bills/Dolphins had some insane juggernaut to overcome (save for 2007). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 46 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: I said "all teams should lose to their rivals more than they do other teams as a percentage" - should being the key word. I backed up my logic with the sentences that follow. The Jets, Bills and Dolphins have been incredibly awful over Tom Brady's career. They had a combined 57 seasons and the best QB out of that group is either Mark Sanchez or Chad Pennington. The Patriots have been great - but pretending that those teams being awful doesn't matter doesn't make sense either. The Packers, Saints and Seahawks all had chances to form a dynasty with an elite QB/coach combo - the Vikings, Falcons and Rams rose up within four years of those teams winning their super bowls and won the division. Yah, but they don't. What you think "should" happen doesn't actually happen. While the Patriots do better against the worst teams in other divisions compared to their own division rivals, top teams from other divisions are the exact opposite. That supports the argument that the AFC East isn't as horrible as you claim. I'm sorry if those facts bump up against your cognitive dissonance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 22 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: Mediocrity year in and year out, sure. But the Dolphins have only made the playoffs three times since the Pats dynasty began, and have 0 playoff wins. The Bills have made the playoffs one time (last year) since the dynasty began. Let's stop there for a minute - while the Dolphins have rarely been a truly awful team, 0 playoff wins in 18 years is bad. Them and the Bills both. There are only three other teams to have 0 playoff wins in the same span: Browns, Lions and Bengals - but the Bengals have at least made the playoffs on several occasions and have been better than the Dolphins and Bills over that time. The Jets are where you're hanging your hat for the AFC East not being terrible - they've made the playoffs six times, and actually won six playoff games. But in this time period, their best QBs were Pennington and Sanchez. Despite the Jets actually making the AFCCG twice, did anyone actually see them winning a super bowl? With Sanchez? Coming into every season, the Patriots never once faced a threat to the division crown except for the year Brady went down. Now consider that, since 2004, the Patriots have rarely had the best team in the NFL going into the playoffs. So it's not like the Jets/Bills/Dolphins had some insane juggernaut to overcome (save for 2007). The bottom of the AFC East has won 38% of its playoff games since 2001. That's higher than the bottom 3 teams of the NFC North and AFC West. The bottom of every division aside from the AFC East has won 43% of their playoff games. So 38% win percentage for the Bills, Dolphins and Jets compared to 43% for the bottom three teams of every other division. It's a gap, but not that huge, and especially when you consider how their playoff appearances are usually as a wild card team because the Patriots have almost always won the division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nads786 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Pats always lose to the Dolphins, divisional games are very hard to win. I would love to see the Pats record non division and I can bet it's insane as well. It's unreal how good they are as a team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 35 minutes ago, childofpudding said: Yah, but they don't. What you think "should" happen doesn't actually happen. While the Patriots do better against the worst teams in other divisions compared to their own division rivals, top teams from other divisions are the exact opposite. That supports the argument that the AFC East isn't as horrible as you claim. I'm sorry if those facts bump up against your cognitive dissonance. You're really going to be in the minority of people who don't think the AFC East is awful. The Bills and Dolphins have zero playoff wins since 2001 - the only other division that has two teams that haven't won a playoff game is the AFC North - but in that same time frame, both the Ravens and Steelers have won a Super Bowl. AFC East has been horrifically bad outside of New England. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, childofpudding said: The bottom of the AFC East has won 38% of its playoff games since 2001. That's higher than the bottom 3 teams of the NFC North and AFC West. The bottom of every division aside from the AFC East has won 43% of their playoff games. So 38% win percentage for the Bills, Dolphins and Jets compared to 43% for the bottom three teams of every other division. It's a gap, but not that huge, and especially when you consider how their playoff appearances are usually as a wild card team because the Patriots have almost always won the division. The Patriots have almost always won the division because of the ineptitude of three NFL franchises. This is what those three teams have failed to overcome: 2018: 5th best record 2017: tied for the best record 2016: best record 2015: 3rd best record 2014: tied for best record 2013: tied for 3rd best record 2012: tied for 3rd best record 2011: tied for 2nd best record 2010: best record 2009: tied for 8th best record 2008: Brady hurt 2007: best record 2006: tied for 4th best record 2005: 11th best record From 2001-2004, I'll give the AFC East a pass because the Patriots owned the NFL. So just focusing on the past 14 seasons, the Patriots were the clear cut best team in the NFL three times and tied for the best record another two - I'll give the AFC East a pass for that too. We'll also take out the year Brady was hurt for obvious reasons. That leaves 8 seasons in which the Patriots were good but mortal, and yet the AFC East couldn't muster up a contender. The fact that in these 8 years where the AFC East would have had a shot if they were competent, but never really even came close, is what is astounding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
childofpudding Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 24 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: You're really going to be in the minority of people who don't think the AFC East is awful. The Bills and Dolphins have zero playoff wins since 2001 - the only other division that has two teams that haven't won a playoff game is the AFC North - but in that same time frame, both the Ravens and Steelers have won a Super Bowl. AFC East has been horrifically bad outside of New England. Haha, I don't care if I'm in the minority. I stated a bunch of statistics to discount your claims, and you didn't even respond to them. You just said, well most people think the AFC East is awful. The narrative that the AFC East has been horrible is a fallacy. It's been about average. The reason the Patriots have dominated the division is because they've been so good, not because the AFC East has been so bad. The statistics that I cited show this pretty clearly. If you had put the Patriots in just about any division back in 2001, they would have dominated that division too, and you and others would be talking about how horrible that division is. The statistics that I cited in this thread show that pretty clearly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 2 minutes ago, childofpudding said: Haha, I don't care if I'm in the minority. I stated a bunch of statistics to discount your claims, and you didn't even respond to them. You just said, well most people think the AFC East is awful. The narrative that the AFC East has been horrible is a fallacy. It's been about average. The reason the Patriots have dominated the division is because they've been so good, not because the AFC East has been so bad. The statistics that I cited show this pretty clearly. If you had put the Patriots in just about any division back in 2001, they would have dominated that division too, and you and others would be talking about how horrible that division is. The statistics that I cited in this thread how that pretty clearly. Statistics can show whatever we want them to. I told you that two teams from the AFC East haven't won a playoff game in that time frame, which is only rivaled by the AFC North - but both of the other two AFC North teams have won a Super Bowl. That's a stat that paints the AFC East as the worst division. The teams themselves have been somewhat mediocre year over year - some of this is subjective, I won't deny that - their rosters have been extremely bad. What really jumps out at me is that over that time, three NFL franchises combined to have 0 franchise QBs - that's........unbelievable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchup Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/14/2019 at 8:56 PM, SkippyX said: Brady is more likely to get to an AFCCG (76.5%) than Brees is to complete a pass this year(74.4%) That is very hard to wrap my head around. The Brady and Bellichick Patriots will never be matched. It's amazing to watch. I know people get sick of them always being in the title games but we are witnesses to something truly special. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.