My rankings of the 8 Coaching hires and post your own too!

[BleedTheClock]

1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

Yeah, he was also very young in those contests. He’s matured since then, and he’s much better now in numerous ways. I don’t know if the playoff monkey is off his back, but using statistics that include his rookie season against him is unfair. He’s damn near 30 now. 

I think he’s good enough to make a run under the right circumstances.

Yeah I don't think Dalton is the problem in Cincinnati. He's not some star QB that will be considered in the top 10 QB rankings, but he's good enough to win at a high level if they had more talent around him.

The problem with the Bengals is that they have zero team speed on defense and their OL is horrid. Plus they've had a lot of awful injuries.

[43M]

On 1/14/2019 at 5:49 PM, brownie man said:

In no order 

Green Bay Packers - Matt Lafleur 

Cincinnati Bengals - Zac Taylor

Miami Dolphins - Brian Flores 

Tampa Bay Buccaneers - Bruce Arians 

Cleveland Browns - Freddie Kitches 

Denver Broncos - Vic Fangio

Arizona Cardinals - Kliff Kingsbury

New York Jets- Adam Gase 

My order goes

1. Freddie Kitchens- Only candidate to have proven success with his franchise QB. Has brought in a great staff and has a ton of talent and cap.

2. Adam Gase - Has a franchsie QB with experience helping QBs previously. Darnold will help him keep his job for years. Tannenhill made him look worse than he is.

3. Bruce Arians - Great experience but has to “fix” his potential QB. Is also older and I’m concerned how long he’ll be in the role. 

4. Matt Lafluer - Has a HOF QB and also brings in different ideas from Kyle/Mcvay. Has a pretty strong defensive staff but he himself has no proven success, but did have to deal with a hurt Mariota all season so we really don’t know. 

5. Kliffs Kingsbury - Hopefullly has his franchise QB, was a QB himself, and has proven to see QB talent and develop it, but no real HC success to this point. 

6. Zac Taylor- I put Zac above the other coaches because Dalton is actually serviceable. I think he can improve that offense in Cinci and bring life to that stale culture. Cinci is fairly talented  might just need fresh mindset.

7. Brian Flores - Not a very lengthy resume, but apparently Miami understands they’re tanking for 2020. This is why I put him above Fangio. He’s going to have the time to find his franchise QB and my guess is Caldwell will be good being the OC there for the near future once they draft their guy next year. I think he’ll be given that needed time to potentially succeed. 

8. Vic Fangio - Proven track record defensively, but has no real franchise QB. I’m concerned about their offense. I think he’ll be fired within 3 years unless something drastic happens at QB they’re not winning enough games with Case for him to keep that job. 

 

No homerism here, huh?   

Look, I dont know much about Kitchens, but I do think he is in a good position to succeed.    However, the logic that he has had success with his franchise QB is a bit flawed, because he had success with Baker while coaching him as an offensive coordinator.   Its a different animal going from running JUST the offense with low expectations to running an entire team with high expectations.     He isnt going to be able to focus soley on Baker and offense anymore....he is running the whole damn show.    Alot of great coordinators fail to make the transition.

Im not saying you are wrong.   Your list could be spot on in the long run.   However, I could just as easily see this list being completely flipped in regards to who ends up the most successful.   

[SmittyBacall]

8 hours ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Nah, we should ignore that. Just like we should ignore the fact that 3 of those 4 playoff appearances were away games. Or the fact that 2 of those were against top-6 and 5 defenses going into the playoffs against a Watt led HOU. Which both btw was loud as well in HOU because of his college ties to TCU which amped up the crowd even more. Or the fact that, IRRC, there were about 7-8 dropped passes in the first game and in crucial moments -- I remember those because some were on Benson and as a Bears fan I cannot stand him and was happy to see his *** fail. 

But's let's ignore all of that because of box scorez.

I am in no way a fan of Dalton. But I cannot stand it when I see people who are clearly only  box score scouting in order try an prove a point while ignoring or dismissing other important factors involved.

I don't blame them. Cincinnati isn't exactly America's team; you don't see them on TV or in prime time very often at all. The majority of the time most fans get to see us play is in the playoffs, in which people extrapolate what they see and draw conclusions from that. It's more fun for people to troll "LOLton".

I'm not saying Dalton hasn't played poor in the playoffs - he has. But I don't think his first four playoff appearances, during his first four years in the NFL (2011-2014), are indicative of the QB he is now, or the potential he has to succeed in the playoffs at this present time. We also need to consider that while Dalton has played poorly, so has the rest of every Marvin Lewis playoff team. We always come in flat. 

[SmittyBacall]

8 hours ago, BleedTheClock said:

Yeah I don't think Dalton is the problem in Cincinnati. He's not some star QB that will be considered in the top 10 QB rankings, but he's good enough to win at a high level if they had more talent around him.

The problem with the Bengals is that they have zero team speed on defense and their OL is horrid. Plus they've had a lot of awful injuries.

Certainly. I honestly think it more has to do with coaching than the actual personnel. We have talent. It's just not exploited properly. 

But yes, the offensive line is a big issue. Two upgrades need to be made along that right side at RG and RT; especially if we want to implement an offensive system similar to the Rams.

Defense on the other hand could use an infusion of defensive line talent, and a total overhaul of linebacking. Atkins, Carl Lawson, and Dunlap are still very good.  Sam Hubbard and Jordan Willis provide quality depth with upside. We're definitely more set at end than defensive tackle. Billings has been good at nose, but there isn't much relief behind him. Grooming a dominant DT behind Atkins could be the focus going into the draft. Luckily. this is a deep class so we should have an opportunity to grab one at multiple spots. Linebacker on the other hand is a mess. We can't cover. We get killed by RBs and TEs every week. Even with a quality defensive line and excellent secondary, teams just dink and dunk us down the field. Burfict is oft-injured and came back from suspension out of shape; he's a mystery. Vigil is okay. But everyone else can't be relied upon to play significant snaps in todays NFL. 

We're not far off, I guess is my point. And it ain't on Dalton. It wouldn't surprise me if we had a quick turnaround next season. We have some holes, but we're not a bad team per se. Just really poorly coached. 

[brooks1957]

6 hours ago, FourThreeMafia said:

No homerism here, huh?   

Look, I dont know much about Kitchens, but I do think he is in a good position to succeed.    However, the logic that he has had success with his franchise QB is a bit flawed, because he had success with Baker while coaching him as an offensive coordinator.   Its a different animal going from running JUST the offense with low expectations to running an entire team with high expectations.     He isnt going to be able to focus soley on Baker and offense anymore....he is running the whole damn show.    A lot of great coordinators fail to make the transition.

Im not saying you are wrong.   Your list could be spot on in the long run.   However, I could just as easily see this list being completely flipped in regards to who ends up the most successful.   

You hit the nail on the head - and from the 412, ugh...... LOL!

Seriously, that will be the biggest challenge of Freddie's tenure. The expectations for the Cleveland Browns in 2019 are massive. Kitchens will simply not have the time to continue the closeness of the relationship with Baker from 2018. He will have to delegate that. How does that play out? - TBD.

But I will say this. I am 61 years old - and I learned a long time ago that you "win" in life with people. In business, in your choice of a spouse, in friendships, etc. Freddie is as genuine as they come - and he has a side that makes him tough as nails when he needs to be. My money is on Freddie to succeed.

[DawgX]

Arians was the best hire.

[lancerman]

22 hours ago, buno67 said:

And Zac Taylor does? Taylor has been in the NFL coaching, what 5, maybe 6 years. His time as an NFL coordinator was an interim tag just like Freddie  

I could see Freddie being #1 if your talking about hire and situation. Freddie has by far the best situation out of all the coaches. One of, if not the best young QB and prolly the best GM to work with. 

Also Freddie has no learning curve with the team. Can’t hit the ground running unlike the other guys

Who brought up Zac Taylor? 

 

 

[Danger]

23 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

Cutting Dalton and signing Foles would be a lateral move at best. I'm also wary of Foles' Philadelphia success under Pederson in general, considering the guy hasn't been able to succeed without him. Maybe I'm wrong. Eagles fans help me out here. 

He was successful under Chip Kelly. The only time he was genuinely a bad QB was under QB Killer Jeff Fisher.

[buno67]

49 minutes ago, lancerman said:

Who brought up Zac Taylor? 

Direct quote from you...

“Freddie Kitchens has the least experience applicable to being a head coach of anyone on this list”

that list includes Zac Taylor. Just telling you that you were wrong...

[FGK]

21 hours ago, TedLavie said:

1 - Arians

2 - Fangio

3 - Kitchens

4 - Flores

5 - Gase

6 - LaFleur

7 - Taylor

8 - Kingsbury

I think this is about right. And that's as a Browns fan. Arians is a solid short term hire, moving to great if he grooms a replacement for when he is done in a few years. Fangio is an awesome, awesome DC and if they find a good OC to pair him with and a new QB that might be a quick rebound for Denver. Flores/LaFleur/Taylor/Kingsbury are all lottery tickets, who knows what will happen with all of them. The one I would put way lower is Gase. I get that he got saddled with Tannehill, but he's just never screamed HC to me, one of those guys who might be better as a OC than an HC.

Kitchens probably shouldn't be #1 realistically speaking, but all y'all putting him at the bottom just because it's Cleveland are gonna be glad no one will remember it in a few years. I get that he doesn't have previous HC experience, but honestly, I'd prefer him to a retread who's failed somewhere else before. I've never figured out why sports coaching seems to be the one place where "I've been there before and failed!" seems to be a positive rather than a negative. Kitchens took a bottom 5 offense and made it top 5 just with playcalling and player buy in. If I was Cinci/NYJ/AZ, that's the kinda guy I'm looking for. I think the overly negative reaction might be partially overreaction to the CLE fanbase's (understandble) over-excitement with everything going on right now combined with just a lack of knowledge about the guy and the situation. Like, having Hue for two years and listening to those press conferences and player interviews, and now listening this year to ones from/about Kitchens? Fwew, talk about an about face. Humble, likeable, loyal guy. And you can tell in the way the offensive players talk about him.

It is a copycat league, and right now everyone is trying to find a Shanahan/McVay clone. Kitchens doesn't sound like it because of his country bumpkin accent, but watching what he did with that offense this year, combined with the kind of player loyalty he seems to engender, I think he's the best shot of the bunch if you're giving me flat odds across the board.

[lancerman]

3 hours ago, buno67 said:

Direct quote from you...

“Freddie Kitchens has the least experience applicable to being a head coach of anyone on this list”

that list includes Zac Taylor. Just telling you that you were wrong...

Ok.... Taylor has more coordinator experience. It’s not really an impressive difference and Taylor again still has more experience applicable to being a HC

[buno67]

1 hour ago, lancerman said:

Ok.... Taylor has more coordinator experience. It’s not really an impressive difference and Taylor again still has more experience applicable to being a HC

More coordinator experience. Not going to use college experience to trump nfl experience. When it comes to Taylor’s experience as an OC in the NFL it was as an interim OC just like Freddie. Freddie made his offense top tier, Zac not so much...

[NYJets4716]

8 hours ago, freakygeniuskid said:

I think this is about right. And that's as a Browns fan. Arians is a solid short term hire, moving to great if he grooms a replacement for when he is done in a few years. Fangio is an awesome, awesome DC and if they find a good OC to pair him with and a new QB that might be a quick rebound for Denver. Flores/LaFleur/Taylor/Kingsbury are all lottery tickets, who knows what will happen with all of them. The one I would put way lower is Gase. I get that he got saddled with Tannehill, but he's just never screamed HC to me, one of those guys who might be better as a OC than an HC.

Kitchens probably shouldn't be #1 realistically speaking, but all y'all putting him at the bottom just because it's Cleveland are gonna be glad no one will remember it in a few years. I get that he doesn't have previous HC experience, but honestly, I'd prefer him to a retread who's failed somewhere else before. I've never figured out why sports coaching seems to be the one place where "I've been there before and failed!" seems to be a positive rather than a negative. Kitchens took a bottom 5 offense and made it top 5 just with playcalling and player buy in. If I was Cinci/NYJ/AZ, that's the kinda guy I'm looking for. I think the overly negative reaction might be partially overreaction to the CLE fanbase's (understandble) over-excitement with everything going on right now combined with just a lack of knowledge about the guy and the situation. Like, having Hue for two years and listening to those press conferences and player interviews, and now listening this year to ones from/about Kitchens? Fwew, talk about an about face. Humble, likeable, loyal guy. And you can tell in the way the offensive players talk about him.

It is a copycat league, and right now everyone is trying to find a Shanahan/McVay clone. Kitchens doesn't sound like it because of his country bumpkin accent, but watching what he did with that offense this year, combined with the kind of player loyalty he seems to engender, I think he's the best shot of the bunch if you're giving me flat odds across the board.

Cleveland had a top 5 offense? Interesting. 

 

I know they have a good amount of talent after having all that money to spend and top picks for years.

 

[jaa1025]

Tampa is #1 just for getting Arians out of the booth. He made my ears hurt listening. Now if we can only get the MNF crew out of there.

[sdrawkcab321]

Taylor leflure and Flores are mind boggling hires. Idk how anyone who’s followed football the last couple years could think hiring a patriots assistant is a good idea. Let alone a defensive one.