Kyler Murray

[ripsean21]

2 minutes ago, mike23md said:

You make Lamar Jackson throw the ball and he is awful. I always believed he needs a lot of work. 

Read it here: https://www.nflmock.com/post/lamar-jackson-bust-preview

Putting in Jackson for the Ravens was the only option. Their OC did the same thing that Kyle did here with RGIII. Modified the offense to fit something that works. But again, Jackson will get figured out and the Chargers did just that. When they stopped being aggressive on defense in the 2nd half of that game against the Ravens, Jackson had some success throwing. When they clamped him down and forced him to throw, he sucked. And Jackson had the strongest arm in the class. 

Yes this is true but Murray can throw the ball short and intermediately where Jackson can’t!!!!

[MKnight82]

Just now, ripsean21 said:

Does he look physically small though?

IMO yes.  

Just now, ripsean21 said:

How much dfference does 3” and 20 pounds look in stature?

Look at a guy like Cam Newton, he's like 7-8 inches taller and 70ish lb heavier than Murray.  You need to be able to take a hit from 300 lb lineman consistently, he's already gotten injured some from NCAA size guys.  

1 minute ago, ripsean21 said:

The fact that Mike and Knight that you two don’t agree with me almost kills me because both of y’all are pound the rock tough defenseive guys and we only differ on things seldomly. But I have spent a lot of time breaking him down even more then Grier who I thought was the best fit for Grudens offense. But I think Murray can make the entire offense better!!!

That's cool man its just a game we all have our own opinions.  

[ripsean21]

1 minute ago, MKnight82 said:

Is it sad that I would sacrifice our first round pick to get rid of Bruce Allen?  

I don’t know if I would but I am scared about that with Murray!!!! But dude these guys not going to back down from a culture!!! He would IMO look at it like Mayfield just embracing the Browns last year pre draft!!! Murray believes in himself so I don’t think this is as much as us being redskins fans hating our FO are actually making it out to be

[ripsean21]

2 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

IMO yes.  

Look at a guy like Cam Newton, he's like 7-8 inches taller and 70ish lb heavier than Murray.  You need to be able to take a hit from 300 lb lineman consistently, he's already gotten injured some from NCAA size guys.  

That's cool man its just a game we all have our own opinions.  

Oh I’m cool I mean we’ve had our safety debates lol. But my breakdown for Murray is he has a QB presence like Russell Wilson where he does move to throw the ball and not souly just to run. And I have seen Murray take hits I’ve seen Baker and Cam and all those guys get walloped in College. It’s apart of the game. Murray would have to protect himself in the mold of Russell. I just think about actually trying to put this team in a position to compete reguardless or Brice and Dan. I think Murray gets the most Value out of our home grown players who haven’t been maximized to date in this system!!!!

[Ghostnote]

5 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

Does he look physically small though? Not about the height he looks built like a athlete. How much dfference does 3” and 20 pounds look in stature? Height length to build he doesn’t look like a small guy!!! He’s not a long striding runner which has haunted RG for falling in weird angles. Look at the nagging injury history of great athletes with long strides like DJax, Calvin Johnson, Julio, RG there is something to that. Russell is physically bigger but what’s to say come combine and draft time when Kyler is 195 and looks like he can hold that weight I’m not overly concerned.

The fact that Mike and Knight that you two don’t agree with me almost kills me because both of y’all are pound the rock tough defenseive guys and we only differ on things seldomly. But I have spent a lot of time breaking him down even more then Grier who I thought was the best fit for Grudens offense. But I think Murray can make the entire offense better!!!

I dont want an athlete at QB. I want a QB. 

You're entitled to your opinion as am I. I believe in pounding the rock and tough defense, but I also believe that you could take a 2nd or 3rd round pick like Easton Stick or Brett Rypien and draft a solid LG and WR early and do the same thing (although I do believe a S, LB, and CB are all a bigger priority than WR, but not LG). And with Alex Smith still on the books, Colt McCoy still on the books and Josh Johnson just a hint of success, and the simple fact that Kirk was not resigned, makes me absolutely believe that this front office does not want a young QB anymore. 

And lets not get started on an athlete with a big arm who won the Heisman schtick. Seems we have all heard that somewhere before... 

 

[ripsean21]

4 minutes ago, mike23md said:

I dont want an athlete at QB. I want a QB. 

You're entitled to your opinion as am I. I believe in pounding the rock and tough defense, but I also believe that you could take a 2nd or 3rd round pick like Easton Stick or Brett Rypien and draft a solid LG and WR early and do the same thing (although I do believe a S, LB, and CB are all a bigger priority than WR, but not LG). And with Alex Smith still on the books, Colt McCoy still on the books and Josh Johnson just a hint of success, and the simple fact that Kirk was not resigned, makes me absolutely believe that this front office does not want a young QB anymore. 

And lets not get started on an athlete with a big arm who won the Heisman schtick. Seems we have all heard that somewhere before... 

 

I’m not looking at RG and not taking DeSean Watson or Patrick Mahomes because I was pounding the table saying DeSean was the best player in that draft. Mahomes is better but there wasn’t much of a drop off in my evaluation from Watson to Mahomes other then I said I didn’t think Mahomes was a day one starter but has a higher ceiling.

That class was at the time considered a highly flawed class but the top 3 guys all made it to the post season. Murray is short but the boy can play football!!! No QB is a sure thing because until you get them in the building and see what their mental and work ethic is you don’t know!!! But I’d have to say a guy who is a top 15 talent in 2 professional sports is a mentally strong dedicated worker. It also depends on if the QB’s personality gels with the HC!!!

As you see with Goff when you have a crummy offense they struggle!! Infuse a HC and offense they can thrive in and the personalities gel it translates on the field. My grade on Murray isn’t based on Jay!!!! My grade on Murray is about Giving Trent a run!! Giving Doctson a shot to maximize his abilities. It’s about having Guice and AP pounding through to the second level untouched with Thompson on swings running free.

[Ghostnote]

6 minutes ago, ripsean21 said:

I’m not looking at RG and not taking DeSean Watson or Patrick Mahomes because I was pounding the table saying DeSean was the best player in that draft. Mahomes is better but there wasn’t much of a drop off in my evaluation from Watson to Mahomes other then I said I didn’t think Mahomes was a day one starter but has a higher ceiling.

That class was at the time considered a highly flawed class but the top 3 guys all made it to the post season. Murray is short but the boy can play football!!! No QB is a sure thing because until you get them in the building and see what their mental and work ethic is you don’t know!!! But I’d have to say a guy who is a top 15 talent in 2 professional sports is a mentally strong dedicated worker. It also depends on if the QB’s personality gels with the HC!!!

As you see with Goff when you have a crummy offense they struggle!! Infuse a HC and offense they can thrive in and the personalities gel it translates on the field. My grade on Murray isn’t based on Jay!!!! My grade on Murray is about Giving Trent a run!! Giving Doctson a shot to maximize his abilities. It’s about having Guice and AP pounding through to the second level untouched with Thompson on swings running free.

You don't need a QB to do that, you need a healthy offensive line. Colt is certainly skilled enough to hand off the ball to Peterson and Guice. But none of them get much without a healthy offensive line. With the LG position being ignored for a back up swing tackle really made no sense. 

I just dont believe Murray is the answer with other issues and 2 QB's taking up a healthy portion of the cap. And the 2020 class is looking to be MUCH more talented at QB, not at Athlete. 

[Jeezy Fanatic]

TANK FOR TATE MARTELL!!!

[rizzy]

10 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

TANK FOR TATE MARTELL!!!

Lowkey we should take Jeff Thomas next year to be our Djax.

[naptownskinsfan]

10 minutes ago, Jeezy Fanatic said:

TANK FOR TATE MARTELL!!!

Who names their kid Tathan anyway?

[Skinscavalier]

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Woz]

16 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

I honestly think he will put in at least two years in the NFL.  However, if things aren't looking like he is going to have a great career, he will jump for MLB.  It's really, really hard for me to justify putting a first round label on this guy.  Murray's a big time talent, but who knows how committed he is, and if his size is going to cause issues for him as well.  

We all know that Snyder and Allen would draft him for the tickets and jersey sales, let's just hope another team beats us to him. 

I just hope that someone in the front office asks him "Would you play for us if we draft you?" I'm not sure this has been fully addressed yet.

 

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/25761785/kyler-murray-declares-2019-nfl-draft-answering-questions-next

Quote

Is this dual path about money or passion?

Both. The 2018 college football season was a life-changer for Murray, who figured he would be reporting in February to A's spring training. He now has an opportunity to earn more money, and make big money quickly, than if he stayed with baseball. The A's have committed $4.66 million to him, but every first-round pick in the 2019 NFL draft will receive at least double that total.

First-round picks in the NFL draft get fully guaranteed four-year contracts. Last year's No. 1 overall pick, fellow former Oklahoma quarterback Baker Mayfield, received $32.7 million guaranteed. The No. 32 pick, Baltimore Ravens quarterback Lamar Jackson, was guaranteed $8.1 million. Those slots will increase along with the still-to-be-determined rise in the 2019 salary cap.

The whole "oh, he'll play football because he can get paid more and quicker" only works if he's a first round pick. In case anyone's curious, last year's 15th pick of the first round was T Kolton Miller (went to the Raiders), and he received a 4 yr, $13.4M deal (with a fifth year team option, obviously).

However, if Murray starts to hem and haw or say that I won't play for X team, he could fall down in value. It's possible some of those later teams I discussed in the other thread (Pittsburgh, LA Chargers, Patriots) might take a shot at him given that their respective incumbent QBs are all on the final year of their contract. But if they were to pass, down the hole he goes. As an example, last year's 14th pick of the second round (where Washington will be in 2019) was DE Breeland Speaks. He signed a 4 yr, $6.1M deal with Kansas City. At that point, the money argument kind of loses a lot of steam.

[Woz]

3 hours ago, MKnight82 said:

Is it sad that I would sacrifice our first round pick to get rid of Bruce Allen?  

Except that it would resonate beyond Allen's termination a la Griffin. The franchise is only now finally getting beyond that. Yes, it took the Cousins fiasco to make the Griffin deal recede into the rearview mirror.

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, Woz said:

Except that it would resonate beyond Allen's termination a la Griffin. The franchise is only now finally getting beyond that. Yes, it took the Cousins fiasco to make the Griffin deal recede into the rearview mirror.

Hard to compare considering Griffin went for 3 firsts and a 2nd.  

[Woz]

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

Murray is short but the boy can play football!!! No QB is a sure thing because until you get them in the building and see what their mental and work ethic is you don’t know!!! But I’d have to say a guy who is a top 15 talent in 2 professional sports is a mentally strong dedicated worker. It also depends on if the QB’s personality gels with the HC!!!

1. He played football at Oklahoma.
2. He may be a mentally strong dedicated worker, but is he mentally strong and dedicated to football?
3. The bolded part is a massively underrated risk for the franchise here.

2 hours ago, ripsean21 said:

As you see with Goff when you have a crummy offense they struggle!! Infuse a HC and offense they can thrive in and the personalities gel it translates on the field. My grade on Murray isn’t based on Jay!!!! My grade on Murray is about Giving Trent a run!! Giving Doctson a shot to maximize his abilities. It’s about having Guice and AP pounding through to the second level untouched with Thompson on swings running free.

You talk about infusing the team with a HC so the quarterback can thrive ... but Gruden is still here and Allen is starting to get to tardigrade levels of survival? How will they infuse the system to make it work? What are they replaced with that suddenly injects that beam of light that makes it all go?