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Raiders Defense

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4 hours ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I agree it’s hard to play safety at a high level as a rookie but my train of thought is we know what McGill is, he’s been in the league for a few years and isn’t going to turn into anything more than he is which is a borderline ST player that doesn’t have the ability to play meaningful snaps. Now with Luani we don’t know what we have and if the safety play is going to be subpar, I’d rather have Luani make mistakes and learn from them then stick McGill out there. 

This line of thinking only makes sense if the season is over. You never hand things over to rookies because a lot of the NFL is about adjusting and it takes rookies too long to adjust. Luani had some good plays in preseason but it's a stretch to say he should be starting. Now I don't think McGill should be either and that's why he isn't. 

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23 minutes ago, Chali21 said:

This line of thinking only makes sense if the season is over. You never hand things over to rookies because a lot of the NFL is about adjusting and it takes rookies too long to adjust. Luani had some good plays in preseason but it's a stretch to say he should be starting. Now I don't think McGill should be either and that's why he isn't. 

I’m not saying Luani should start, I’m saying he should be playing over McGill. If they’re both prone to mistakes and we’re forced to play one, I’d rather it be Luani. 

 

Nelson and Joseph are our starters, Luani should be next up imo. McGill is maxed out and it isn’t good. 

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50 minutes ago, CaliforniaKid7 said:

I’m not saying Luani should start, I’m saying he should be playing over McGill. If they’re both prone to mistakes and we’re forced to play one, I’d rather it be Luani. 

 

Nelson and Joseph are our starters, Luani should be next up imo. McGill is maxed out and it isn’t good. 

I think what he was saying is the team trust McGill more than they do Luani ATM. It could change but that would be after at least 8 more weeks of him learning the NFL game.

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11 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said:

We are all hoping. He is practicing so it's close atleast.

Hmm that didnt show up, it showed up when i tested it.

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33 minutes ago, raidr4life said:

Hmm that didnt show up, it showed up when i tested it.

I have to wait til I'm at my laptop i think. On my phone I can't save the link from the original location. I had the same problem trying to send a sig previously.

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2 hours ago, NightTrainLane said:

I think what he was saying is the team trust McGill more than they do Luani ATM. It could change but that would be after at least 8 more weeks of him learning the NFL game.

Fair way of looking at it, but I'm at the point where I like Luani's potential better than McGill's..."je ne sais quoi".  I'll take the lumps because I think long term he'll be better.  Because we're going to take lumps with Nelson or McGill too.

 

Granted, as you always say, we do not see practice.  Maybe Luani doesn't know the playbook well or some other reason.

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5 hours ago, Silver&Black88 said:

Fair way of looking at it, but I'm at the point where I like Luani's potential better than McGill's..."je ne sais quoi".  I'll take the lumps because I think long term he'll be better.  Because we're going to take lumps with Nelson or McGill too.

 

Granted, as you always say, we do not see practice.  Maybe Luani doesn't know the playbook well or some other reason.

Agreed, Luani has at least shown something, even though we must temper expectations as it was pre-season against backups it's still for all intents and purposes more than McGill has ever shown. I'm not usually in favour of throwing rookies in the deep end but I think we have evidence to show that he is at least capable of making plays and didn't get abused when he had the limited chance.

We almost certainly know that Nelson is on his last legs and we almost certainly know that McGill is not the answer but just backup at best - I feel we should be seeing Luani in limited snaps at least - there are a whole ton of players who practice great and then play poorly, then there are guys who don't look much in practice and suddenly rise to the game. As NightTrainLane justifiably says, we don't know whats happening behind the scenes on the practice field, but there is only 1 sure way to know what a guy brings to the actual game and that is to let him get his feet wet in game action.

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McGill is terrible. He doesn't even belong on an NFL field imo. He has size and speed and that's it. He's equally bad at CB and S, doesn't play special teams well, and has had 3+ years to improve. 22 tkls and 2 breakups in 45 games.

If we're gonna have somebody who makes mistakes playing 10 or so snaps a game, I'd much rather have Luani soaking up the playing experience over a 4th year disappointment who has never improved.

Edited by riceman80

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It's really hard watching games most of the time when our secondary is so bad. We still need a huge influx of talent on the defensive side of the ball. Yes Bowman and his experience on the defense really showed up but is he here just for the rest of this year? We still need a Middle Linebacker, and still need better talent at corner and safety. With how bad our defense has shown to be most of this season should we be targeting a defensive player in the draft in the next draft in the first round or wait for 2nd and 3rd rounds. I only ask this because i know we have age at LT in Penn so OT could be a target and with how bad Marshawn Lynch has shown to be so far should we target a Running Back.

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I think the main problem for the front offense when it comes to the defense is how the investment in the defensive line has flat out not worked out.

Think of the guys brought in over the past 3 seasons: Dan Williams, Mario Edwards (round 2), Bruce Irvin, Jihad Ward (round 2), Shilique Calhoun (round 3), Eddie Vanderdoes (round 3). I’d say only one of those guys (Bruce Irvin) has been a constant contributor since they were brought in. Vanderdoes is still a work in progress and has been forced into a starting role because Ward hasn’t panned out. 

The investment in bad corners has also really hurt the development of the defense, but they might not look as bad as they are if the defensive line could generate pressure more consistently. Sean Smith and Reggie Nelson are as good as gone this offseason so they’ll be an opportunity for a fresh start in the secondary.

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7 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

I think the main problem for the front offense when it comes to the defense is how the investment in the defensive line has flat out not worked out.

Think of the guys brought in over the past 3 seasons: Dan Williams, Mario Edwards (round 2), Bruce Irvin, Jihad Ward (round 2), Shilique Calhoun (round 3), Eddie Vanderdoes (round 3). I’d say only one of those guys (Bruce Irvin) has been a constant contributor since they were brought in. Vanderdoes is still a work in progress and has been forced into a starting role because Ward hasn’t panned out. 

The investment in bad corners has also really hurt the development of the defense, but they might not look as bad as they are if the defensive line could generate pressure more consistently. Sean Smith and Reggie Nelson are as good as gone this offseason so they’ll be an opportunity for a fresh start in the secondary.

Mario Edwards hasn't been a consistent contributor? Ellis has also been really good as of late. Ward is looking like a flat out bust, as was Calhoun, but at least a few of those "hit" reasonably well.

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1 minute ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Mario Edwards hasn't been a consistent contributor? Ellis has also been really good as of late. Ward is looking like a flat out bust, as was Calhoun, but at least a few of those "hit" reasonably well.

Edwards missed virtually all of last season and the end of his rookie year. I certainly hope he can stay on the field but that is no certainty yet.

Ellis was drafted 4 years ago which is why I didn’t include him. But, yes, he has been a consistent force since he was brought in. Fact is, the defensive line hasn’t lived up to the investment the team has put in and that is negatively affecting the rest of the defense.

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28 minutes ago, Rich7sena said:

Edwards missed virtually all of last season and the end of his rookie year. I certainly hope he can stay on the field but that is no certainty yet.

Ellis was drafted 4 years ago which is why I didn’t include him. But, yes, he has been a consistent force since he was brought in. Fact is, the defensive line hasn’t lived up to the investment the team has put in and that is negatively affecting the rest of the defense.

I actually think the back end has begun to become the weakness of this team. Our corners aren't making plays and Nelson is always late on deep balls.

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