StocktonSav Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 7 hours ago, Rolni said: Bruce Irvin is a slid EDGE rusher, we need an interior pass rusher a lot more IMO. Christian Wilkins, Maurice Hurst, Taven Bryan, RJ McIntosh, Derrick Nnadi, Harrison Phillips, maybe Da'Ron Payne could fit our 3tech role Of the names you listed I like wilkins, Payne, and especially Hurst. Problem is they fall in a dead zone for us. A reach at 9/10 and unlikely to make it to round 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 40 minutes ago, StocktonSav said: Of the names you listed I like wilkins, Payne, and especially Hurst. Problem is they fall in a dead zone for us. A reach at 9/10 and unlikely to make it to round 2 TRADE. DOWN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: TRADE. DOWN. Agreed. Never can really tell the feasibility of a trade down especially this far out. Arizona seems like a prime candidate at 15 though. New coach and need of a quarterback. Edited January 13, 2018 by StocktonSav Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 minute ago, StocktonSav said: Agreed. Never can really tell the feasibility of a trade down especially this far out. Arizona seems like a prime candidate at 15 though. New coach and need of a quarterback. Yeah, I'm just advocating that we be in the market looking for it. There are definitely guys I would take at 9-10 and be very happy about and like you said, and I have said in the past, still along way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 21 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: Yeah, I'm just advocating that we be in the market looking for it. There are definitely guys I would take at 9-10 and be very happy about and like you said, and I have said in the past, still along way to go. Yea honestly, reach or not, I would still pull the trigger on Hurst at 9. Don't care that "projections" deem that too high. Of all the prospects likely to be available there (ie no Barkley/Fitzpatrick), I want him the most. Evans and Smith are a very close #2 and #3 for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolni Posted January 13, 2018 Author Share Posted January 13, 2018 If we can't pick Barkley, Fitzptrick, Smith or Chubb I'm down for the best DT if he is a true scheme fit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 31 minutes ago, StocktonSav said: Yea honestly, reach or not, I would still pull the trigger on Hurst at 9. Don't care that "projections" deem that too high. Of all the prospects likely to be available there (ie no Barkley/Fitzpatrick), I want him the most. Evans and Smith are a very close #2 and #3 for me. I don't think Hurst is worth the 9-10 pick. Very good player that plays with leverage and punch and can get push but their are 6-7 guys in this draft that can do that as well. When you watch whole games of his snaps and not just highlight films you see just as many plays where he is blocked out of plays by one C or G as you see him knifing into the backfield. You see him losing ball awareness and overrunning the play just as many times as he takes on a double team and makes a play. I think he is a first rounder and will definitely make an impact but I think his play isn't separated at all or very much from guys like Wilkins, Panye, Nnadi, Phillips, Bryan or Vea. I know it's a broad range of guys with different skills but I see the same kinds of pluses and negatives in all their tapes (only 2 games into Nnadi, so so far). What this means to me is that the value at the position is such that we can get one lower in the rd and get the benefits of more picks possibly. But like I'll keep saying, it's early and someone could really separate in the coming months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 4 minutes ago, NightTrainLane said: I don't think Hurst is worth the 9-10 pick. Very good player that plays with leverage and punch and can get push but their are 6-7 guys in this draft that can do that as well. When you watch whole games of his snaps and not just highlight films you see just as many plays where he is blocked out of plays by one C or G as you see him knifing into the backfield. You see him losing ball awareness and overrunning the play just as many times as he takes on a double team and makes a play. I think he is a first rounder and will definitely make an impact but I think his play isn't separated at all or very much from guys like Wilkins, Panye, Nnadi, Phillips, Bryan or Vea. I know it's a broad range of guys with different skills but I see the same kinds of pluses and negatives in all their tapes (only 2 games into Nnadi, so so far). What this means to me is that the value at the position is such that we can get one lower in the rd and get the benefits of more picks possibly. But like I'll keep saying, it's early and someone could really separate in the coming months. You know what, trust what you're seeing brother. "Separate in the coming months" means combine numbers, pro day crap, etc. If you're looking at the play of these guys, trust the tape. For DTs, combine crap is not that far from useless. In my mind at least. If they can't put it on the field, I doubt it will ever be on the field. More than anything, even fans can see basic things on the tape. I don't think many fans got Jihad Ward's profile wrong just by watching him play. The real tricky scouting part is projecting how the uniqueness of each player's entire makeup fits and succeeds or fails in the NFL. That's a very complex mechanism to understand and a scout's job. Combine and pro day crap doesn't define that so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 8 minutes ago, holyghost said: You know what, trust what you're seeing brother. "Separate in the coming months" means combine numbers, pro day crap, etc. If you're looking at the play of these guys, trust the tape. For DTs, combine crap is not that far from useless. In my mind at least. If they can't put it on the field, I doubt it will ever be on the field. More than anything, even fans can see basic things on the tape. I don't think many fans got Jihad Ward's profile wrong just by watching him play. The real tricky scouting part is projecting how the uniqueness of each player's entire makeup fits and succeeds or fails in the NFL. That's a very complex mechanism to understand and a scout's job. Combine and pro day crap doesn't define that so much. Thanks and I second that notion. The things that really help in the offseason "process", to me anyway, are the all-star games and the illumination of the player injury history, attitude and character, even though we only get a peak at these things. I try to take the combine and workout stuff with a grain of salt after the 2016 draft haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: I don't think Hurst is worth the 9-10 pick. Very good player that plays with leverage and punch and can get push but their are 6-7 guys in this draft that can do that as well. When you watch whole games of his snaps and not just highlight films you see just as many plays where he is blocked out of plays by one C or G as you see him knifing into the backfield. You see him losing ball awareness and overrunning the play just as many times as he takes on a double team and makes a play. I think he is a first rounder and will definitely make an impact but I think his play isn't separated at all or very much from guys like Wilkins, Panye, Nnadi, Phillips, Bryan or Vea. I know it's a broad range of guys with different skills but I see the same kinds of pluses and negatives in all their tapes (only 2 games into Nnadi, so so far). What this means to me is that the value at the position is such that we can get one lower in the rd and get the benefits of more picks possibly. But like I'll keep saying, it's early and someone could really separate in the coming months. Completely agree but I find that equally, if not more, applicable to every single dt prospect. (Particularly wilkins imo) I just find his foundation of skills the highest and most appealing among them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 51 minutes ago, StocktonSav said: Completely agree but I find that equally, if not more, applicable to every single dt prospect. (Particularly wilkins imo) I just find his foundation of skills the highest and most appealing among them If you read on in my post I agreed with the bold. I just don't think his skills are separated from the others enough to negate the possible gains of another player in the top 100, even if he is a slight step above them (which is highly debatable). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, NightTrainLane said: If you read on in my post I agreed with the bold. I just don't think his skills are separated from the others enough to negate the possible gains of another player in the top 100, even if he is a slight step above them (which is highly debatable). I know, I get it. I cant dispute your logic. Just a simple difference of opinion on my part. I think he's special Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich7sena Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 3 hours ago, NightTrainLane said: I don't think Hurst is worth the 9-10 pick. Very good player that plays with leverage and punch and can get push but their are 6-7 guys in this draft that can do that as well. When you watch whole games of his snaps and not just highlight films you see just as many plays where he is blocked out of plays by one C or G as you see him knifing into the backfield. You see him losing ball awareness and overrunning the play just as many times as he takes on a double team and makes a play. I think he is a first rounder and will definitely make an impact but I think his play isn't separated at all or very much from guys like Wilkins, Panye, Nnadi, Phillips, Bryan or Vea. I know it's a broad range of guys with different skills but I see the same kinds of pluses and negatives in all their tapes (only 2 games into Nnadi, so so far). What this means to me is that the value at the position is such that we can get one lower in the rd and get the benefits of more picks possibly. But like I'll keep saying, it's early and someone could really separate in the coming months. I disagree with your assessment on Hurst. He doesn't get routinely gets blocked out of plays. Sometimes he gets down blocked on slants, but that's supposed to happen. The linebacker behind him is responsible for the vacated gap. There are a handful -- and I only mean a handful -- of times where he outright loses the play, but he and Vea hold the point of attack much better than Wilkins and Payne. I'd take Hurst at 9/10 and I might take Vea. I have a problem with Wilkins and Payne as top 15 players. Both are gap shooters but get blocked off the ball far too often for my taste. If I'm taking a DT top 15, he better start every down and not be a liability against the run. I'm more confident in Payne becoming an every down player but less confident in Wilkins. I believe Payne will have a similar year one impact as Vanderdoes with only a slightly higher ceiling. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 13, 2018 Share Posted January 13, 2018 1 hour ago, Rich7sena said: I disagree with your assessment on Hurst. He doesn't get routinely gets blocked out of plays. Sometimes he gets down blocked on slants, but that's supposed to happen. The linebacker behind him is responsible for the vacated gap. There are a handful -- and I only mean a handful -- of times where he outright loses the play, but he and Vea hold the point of attack much better than Wilkins and Payne. I'd take Hurst at 9/10 and I might take Vea. I have a problem with Wilkins and Payne as top 15 players. Both are gap shooters but get blocked off the ball far too often for my taste. If I'm taking a DT top 15, he better start every down and not be a liability against the run. I'm more confident in Payne becoming an every down player but less confident in Wilkins. I believe Payne will have a similar year one impact as Vanderdoes with only a slightly higher ceiling. Please re-read what I actually wrote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.