Raiders Defense

[drfrey13]

10 hours ago, Darbsk said:

Just saw this article below and the correlation is unmistakeable:

Boston Sports Info (@bostonsportsinf) Tweeted: NFL turnover margin since 2001

1. Patriots - +189

2. Packers - +88
3. Seahawks - +85
4. Chiefs - +81
5. Falcons - +62

A whopping +101 TO differential than the #2 team

details https://t.co/PcJBrs1bK5

 

The bottom 4 teams are Detroit, Arizona, Cleveland and Oakland being last. The Raiders turnover differential is -98 over that period 😬.

Every single team in the top 10 has a winning record over that period and 6 of them have won Superbowls.

We can talk about yardage, points etc. but when it comes to good defence I feel turnovers and 3rd down percentage are absolutely crucial. Its pretty obvious our turnover differential in 2016 played a massive part in our most successful season in almost 2 decades.

With Carr being notoriously conservative and our WCO scheme we should be relatively frugal in turnovers on offense so our defence has the onus to make a huge difference. Can they create many more turnovers in 2020??

I have been beating this drum for years now.  I have brought it up in the Carr argument and getting back to 2016 levels of play.  I actually just posted about TB last year having a top 5 offense and not making the playoffs.  I think they are a lock this year because they are going from a QB that threw 30 Ints to a QB that threw 9.  I do not care what the names of the QBs are.  This is also why I think Carr has held himself back because he believes TOs lead to loses so he is very conservative and refuses to take the risk when it is needed.  He needs to play smart not conservative and increase his situational awareness.  I think the coaches have to take some blame also if they are not telling him this in practice, meetings, before drives, and before plays.  That is also why I liked Pagano who ran a more aggressive D that takes more risks but more likely to create TOs.  Aggressive on defense and smart on offense.  I know some are going to argue talent level but we have been playing below our talent level and we have lacked cerebral players.  Mental mistakes have been one of our biggest issues since 2016 and that includes coaching.  You can have lesser athletes that play like a team and trust each other and be more successful.

Edited August 15, 2020 by drfrey13

[Darbsk]

12 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

I have been beating this drum for years now.  I have brought it up in the Carr argument and getting back to 2016 levels of play.  I actually just posted about TB last year having a top 5 offense and not making the playoffs.  I think they are a lock this year because they are going from a QB that threw 30 Ints to a QB that threw 9.  I do not care what the names of the QBs are.  This is also why I think Carr has held himself back because he believes TOs lead to loses so he is very conservative and refuses to take the risk when it is needed.  He needs to play smart not conservative and increase his situational awareness.  I think the coaches have to take some blame also if they are not telling him this in practice, meetings, before drives, and before plays.  That is also why I liked Pagano who ran a more aggressive D that takes more risks but more likely to create TOs.  Aggressive on defense and smart on offense.  I know some are going to argue talent level but we have been playing below our talent level and we have lacked cerebral players.  Mental mistakes have been one of our biggest issues since 2016 and that includes coaching.  You can have lesser athletes that play like a team and trust each other and be more successful.

Couple really good points here that I agree with; totally agree that Carr needs to play smarter not more conservative. It's about picking your moments, knowing when and where to get aggressive, if he can do that which is not unreasonable he could have a great year. 

Agree on the D too, I'd happily take a D that gives up yards but is aggressive looking for turnovers and is effective in 3rd down conversions. These two factors can gave a massive impact, just like in 2016 when we weren't a good D but we did well in crucial situations. I just want us for once to be greater than the sum of our parts.

[NYRaider]

On 6/15/2020 at 3:28 PM, Turnobili said:

Abram should give the defense a shot in the arm but lol at him being the key.

I think the two biggest keys to how well good our defense will be are: 

1.) Do our young pass rushers take the next step? 

If Crosby can build upon year 1, Ferrell can play up to his draft stock, and Hurst/Collins can consistently generate pressure up the middle our defense should be a lot better. 

2.) How well will our young CB's play? 

Mullen flashed as a rookie but can be consistent? Will Arnette live up to his draft stock? And will we get solid play from Johnson and/or Robertson? If those guys are legit then our defense should be a lot better. 

[jimkelly02]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think the two biggest keys to how well good our defense will be are: 

1.) Do our young pass rushers take the next step? 

If Crosby can build upon year 1, Ferrell can play up to his draft stock, and Hurst/Collins can consistently generate pressure up the middle our defense should be a lot better. 

2.) How well will our young CB's play? 

Mullen flashed as a rookie but can be consistent? Will Arnette live up to his draft stock? And will we get solid play from Johnson and/or Robertson? If those guys are legit then our defense should be a lot better. 

I agree with all that.  

I’d only add that this defense also needs the “accessory” pieces like D.Randall, Arden Key, Carl Nassib, Joyner/Robertson @ slot CB, even Erik Harris to step up.  
 

It’s not a very deep unit so we’ll need the “accessory” players to contribute.  There’s really no dynamic playmaker on the team so we need solid play from not only the 11 starters but also 4-5 backups.  

[drfrey13]

5 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think the two biggest keys to how well good our defense will be are: 

1.) Do our young pass rushers take the next step? 

If Crosby can build upon year 1, Ferrell can play up to his draft stock, and Hurst/Collins can consistently generate pressure up the middle our defense should be a lot better. 

2.) How well will our young CB's play? 

Mullen flashed as a rookie but can be consistent? Will Arnette live up to his draft stock? And will we get solid play from Johnson and/or Robertson? If those guys are legit then our defense should be a lot better. 

Those will make a big difference but I think priority number one is getting inside pressure.  If we can get a push up the middle that will make the edge players better and that will lead to better play in the back 7.  Players like Mahomes will just step up in the pocket or take off running because there is no gap discipline.  Hurst and Collins will make the difference on D and Jacobs will be the biggest factor on O.

Edited August 20, 2020 by drfrey13

[jimkelly02]

14 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Those will make a big difference but I think priority number one is getting inside pressure.  If we can get a push up the middle that will make the edge players better and that will lead to better play in the back 7.  Players like Mahomes will just step up in the pocket or take off running because there is no gap discipline.  Hurst and Collins will make the difference on D and Jacobs will be the biggest factor on O.

I agree an inside pass rush is essential to our success.  I’ve been very critical of Collins, I think he’s solid but what we need long term.  I see him as a transition player. Ideally we need that prototype 6’5 310 3T whose equally good versus the run and pass.  We need that Quinnen Williams, Leonard Williams, Fletcher Cox, Jonathan Allen type 3Tech for us to really thrive in defense.

I see Hurst as top 3rd DT in a rotation who can be very good pass rusher.  But he’s too small and poor versus the run to be the starter.  But he could carve out a nice niche as the pass rushing DT.

The problem I have with Collins is he’s so “inactive” if he doesn’t win off the snap.  I think his lack of length (6’2”) and overall body type has a lot to do with that.  The longer more athletic DTs can move around and reach out and either grab or effect a QB.  I think this is also why he rarely gets tackles and averages 18-22 tackles a year despite playing a lot of downs.  

As you said QBs just step up in the pocket when there’s an outside rush but no inside rush.  However, that isn’t always true.  Because if the DEs win to the inside of a OT it becomes a inside pressure... in a way.  Luckily for us I think both Ferrell and Crosby, and even Nassib, are effective with an inside rush.

[NYRaider]

17 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Those will make a big difference but I think priority number one is getting inside pressure.  If we can get a push up the middle that will make the edge players better and that will lead to better play in the back 7.  Players like Mahomes will just step up in the pocket or take off running because there is no gap discipline.  Hurst and Collins will make the difference on D and Jacobs will be the biggest factor on O.

I think how our WR's play will be the biggest factor on offense, we more or less already know what we have with Jacobs. Our WR group looks excellent on paper but that means nothing if it doesn't translate to Sunday's. 

Henry Ruggs/Bryan Edwards - Two rookies that haven't played a snap of NFL football. 

Tyrell Williams -  Coming off of an okay year but he couldn't stay healthy last season and is already missing practices in camp. 

Hunter Renfrow - Played well down the stretch, can he build upon that positive momentum?

Zay Jones - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

Nelson Agholor - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

 

 

 

 

[drfrey13]

3 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I think how our WR's play will be the biggest factor on offense, we more or less already know what we have with Jacobs. Our WR group looks excellent on paper but that means nothing if it doesn't translate to Sunday's. 

Henry Ruggs/Bryan Edwards - Two rookies that haven't played a snap of NFL football. 

Tyrell Williams -  Coming off of an okay year but he couldn't stay healthy last season and is already missing practices in camp. 

Hunter Renfrow - Played well down the stretch, can he build upon that positive momentum?

Zay Jones - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

Nelson Agholor - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

 

 

 

 

WRs are a ? mark but they look much improved.  DT has ? in talent and depth.  Is Hankins (Big guy has held up well) going to hold up again,  can Hurst finally contribute, is Collins going to be an improvement, and of course what do we have after those 3?  Hankins going down puts us in a really bad spot.  Just signing Snacks would make me feel a lot better about the defense.

[Humble_Beast]

2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think how our WR's play will be the biggest factor on offense, we more or less already know what we have with Jacobs. Our WR group looks excellent on paper but that means nothing if it doesn't translate to Sunday's. 

Henry Ruggs/Bryan Edwards - Two rookies that haven't played a snap of NFL football. 

Tyrell Williams -  Coming off of an okay year but he couldn't stay healthy last season and is already missing practices in camp. 

Hunter Renfrow - Played well down the stretch, can he build upon that positive momentum?

Zay Jones - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

Nelson Agholor - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

 

 

 

 

young and up coming, nice fresh breath of talent. last two years were horrible! old Jordy Nelson, Cooper gave up, and M Bryant was kick out of the NFL. Last year AB went crazy

[jimkelly02]

7 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

WRs are a ? mark but they look much improved.  DT has ? in talent and depth.  Is Hankins (Big guy has held up well) going to hold up again,  can Hurst finally contribute, is Collins going to be an improvement, and of course what do we have after those 3?  Hankins going down puts us in a really bad spot.  Just signing Snacks would make me feel a lot better about the defense.

Your absolutely right..... the WRs may have question marks but due to the amount of talented added it’s very likely enough of those players have good years.  
 

but at DT we’re incredibly thin..... if Hankins ever got hurt we’d have Hurst and Collins to stuff the run.... i couldn’t imagine those two in short distance/goal line formations.  I don’t know why I’m the only one to talk about Daniel Ross being an incredibly poor 4th DT.  That’s a position that could play 300 snaps.  I don’t know why we are taking such chances.

If we would add Snacks Harrison, Will Compton, Kendricks/Mark Barron, and a power RB we’d be a much better team and one that could suffer a starting players injury and not collapse.

[Darbsk]

9 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I think how our WR's play will be the biggest factor on offense, we more or less already know what we have with Jacobs. Our WR group looks excellent on paper but that means nothing if it doesn't translate to Sunday's. 

Henry Ruggs/Bryan Edwards - Two rookies that haven't played a snap of NFL football. 

Tyrell Williams -  Coming off of an okay year but he couldn't stay healthy last season and is already missing practices in camp. 

Hunter Renfrow - Played well down the stretch, can he build upon that positive momentum?

Zay Jones - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

Nelson Agholor - Coming off of the worst year of his career. 

 

 

 

 

I guess that's why our team hasn't really had much hype and the media isn't buying in yet, WR, DT, LB, CB and S are all going through changes and there is tons of potential but as we all know there is a whole lot that needs to go right for each area of the team to deliver.

Realistically, some positions will not live up to potential and DT could be one. We seem to be putting all our eggs in the Maliek Collins basket and as @jimkelly02 rightly says above we look incredibly thin at NT. Hurst and Collins from what I've seen don't have the leverage or anchor ability to play the run like Hankins, more relying on splash plays by penetrating and much more hit and miss. Ross looks like an end of roster/TC type player to me so its right to be a little concerned. Even if he can provide some ballast there is no contingency for Covid or injury which I find very cavalier.

WR and CB are two areas I think the potential manifests itself as onfield talent, DT is the area I am most concerned with.

[Humble_Beast]

our defense will be a work in progress. When has our defense ever have this many young pieces? We always have over the hill guys, or borderline NFL players. Just look at all the players under 27.  Many are expected to make an impact, and there should be progress. Up to coaches to get them to realize their potential 

all under 27

DL: Mad Max, Ferrell, Key, Nassib, Collins, Hurst

LB: Littleton, Kwiatkoski, Morrow, White, Muse

CB: Mullen, Arnette, Amik, Johnson, Abram, Randall

*all bold are former 1st round picks, or highly regarded. At least we have hope on defense. 

[G]

22 hours ago, Humble_Beast said:

our defense will be a work in progress. When has our defense ever have this many young pieces? We always have over the hill guys, or borderline NFL players. Just look at all the players under 27.  Many are expected to make an impact, and there should be progress. Up to coaches to get them to realize their potential 

all under 27

DL: Mad Max, Ferrell, Key, Nassib, Collins, Hurst

LB: Littleton, Kwiatkoski, Morrow, White, Muse

CB: Mullen, Arnette, Amik, Johnson, Abram, Randall

*all bold are former 1st round picks, or highly regarded. At least we have hope on defense. 

Communication is the key with so many new pieces. The whole team is much younger and the future is bright. A talented roster that just gets the job done. Maybe some of these guys develop into beasts but being good all around instead of 1 stud with scrubs all around should lead to more WINS...

[NYRaider]

On 8/21/2020 at 12:57 AM, jimkelly02 said:

but at DT we’re incredibly thin..... if Hankins ever got hurt we’d have Hurst and Collins to stuff the run.... i couldn’t imagine those two in short distance/goal line formations.  I don’t know why I’m the only one to talk about Daniel Ross being an incredibly poor 4th DT.  That’s a position that could play 300 snaps.  I don’t know why we are taking such chances.

If we would add Snacks Harrison, Will Compton, Kendricks/Mark Barron, and a power RB we’d be a much better team and one that could suffer a starting players injury and not collapse.

We should've kept Anthony Rush last year instead of signing Corey Liuget. 

 

[NYRaider]

FWIW Tashan Reed of the Athletic said Nicolas Morrow and Jonathan Hankins are having good camps. But that Damarious Randall hasn't looked great.