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Rolni

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10 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

I am not saying injuries did not play a role.  What I am saying is each player has red flags.  You have to know what they are and be prepared for those issues.  We were not even though it was a strong possibility.  We had Young and Parker still playing RT.  Good was the only one ready.

Richie Incognito had been healthy his previous 4 seasons playing football so not sure why there were huge red flags and we had a good backup in Good in place, Brown's weight issues and injuries screwed us. But Brown was in great shape in 2019 and played well when healthy. 

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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I mean it's more so on Gruden/Mayock for trusting Trent Brown to stay in shape after we gave him that massive contract. If he would have, even with Richie going down, we would've been able to plug Good into his spot. I'm not a huge Cable guy but we were playing musical chairs on the OL last year and still did pretty okay.

Exactly. 

If Brown worked out for us, people would be singing pur praises. 

And that's the caveat- he did work out.....when he played. 

He missed 16 games, the bulk of which wound up being Covid-related. 

I personally think he's also a lazy pos, but I also know when DID play, our line looked better. If not for last season's Covid stuff, I firmly believe, for better or worse, Trent Brown would've been our RT for the next 5+ years and we would've taken something other than a RT on draft day. 

I'm sure I'm coming off like a huge Cable fan, but I'm really not. I don't look very deep into our position coaches, mostly because Gruden and Guenther spent the last 3 yeas being so inept that no position coach on our team was going to look particularly good. I certainly think there are better OL coaches across the league.

But I also think, as you said, he turned musical chairs into a unit that wasn't atrocious during a season unlike any other. Putting blame on him like he's come in and stunk up the joint just seems absurd to me. The record is clear regarding my feelings about the movements we made on the O-line this offseason. And I'll want to see multiple steps forward from Simpson (for the record, I openly wanted to draft an OG early), James (I was furious at the Hudson situation), and Leatherwood (I panned the pick as a huge reach) going forward.

But up to this point, I can't see how Cable should take the fall for things well beyond his control. There's no way to judge his body of work from 2018-present fairly and call him the problem. 

Edited by ronjon1990
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10 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Exactly. 

If Brown worked out for us, people would be singing pur praises. 

And that's the caveat- he did work out.....when he played. 

He missed 16 games, the bulk of which wound up being Covid-related. 

When Brown was on the field he looked like one of the best OT in the league. But he always had weight and character concerns dating back to his days at Florida which is why the 49ers moved on from him. He was in amazing shape and played great in New England but they had the locker room and leadership to keep him in check. I think it's also important to note that he made like $3.5M in his first 4 seasons in the league and then made $36.5M in his two years here, including $21.5M last season, more than double the second highest paid RT in the league's salary. 

The covid thing definitely hurt him but he also showed up to training camp severely over weight and looked like a guy that was checked out after finally getting paid. No OTA probably played a part in that as did our lack of our leadership across the board. 

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3 hours ago, NYRaider said:

I mean it's more so on Gruden/Mayock for trusting Trent Brown to stay in shape after we gave him that massive contract. If he would have, even with Richie going down, we would've been able to plug Good into his spot. I'm not a huge Cable guy but we were playing musical chairs on the OL last year and still did pretty okay.

Cable has Gruden's ear and when it comes to the o-line Gruden will take the player Cable wants over Mayock's opinion.  Is that my opinion? Yes and it makes since.  Cable has to except some of the blame if he chooses to bring in multiple guys that have red flags.  I did not say it is 100% on him but the saying goes you play with fire you are bound to get burned.  We had TB, Incognito, and Young.  All 3 are injury prone or have motivational issues.  So even though he was the worst RT I have even seen we ended up putting Parker there again.  We might have been better off putting Parker at LG and Good at RT.  There are a lot of red flags around Cable and the product he has put on the field the past 3 years here and in Seattle before that.  This year he needs to prove himself.  

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1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

Isaiah johnson also good at press man, bad at off coverage and route recognition.

Johnson has the physical tools but he's just so inexperienced at the position and IIRC was hurt for most of his rookie season and then had the covid off-season in his second year. It'll probably be an uphill battle for him to make the team but he has the tools as a long, tall, fast CB to fit in Bradley's scheme. And Bradley did help Richard Sherman, another former college WR turned CB, develop into one of the best CB's in NFL history. 

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35 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

Johnson has the physical tools but he's just so inexperienced at the position and IIRC was hurt for most of his rookie season and then had the covid off-season in his second year. It'll probably be an uphill battle for him to make the team but he has the tools as a long, tall, fast CB to fit in Bradley's scheme. And Bradley did help Richard Sherman, another former college WR turned CB, develop into one of the best CB's in NFL history. 

I think he makes it. He technically has safety versatility. Nixon is gone IMO.

Mullen, Hayward, Robertson, Nixon, Douglas, Johnson, Hobbs will make the initial roster IMO. Then Lawson coming back will force a cut.

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4 minutes ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

I think he makes it. He technically has safety versatility. Nixon is gone IMO.

Mullen, Hayward, Robertson, Nixon, Douglas, Johnson, Hobbs will make the initial roster IMO. Then Lawson coming back will force a cut.

You don't think Arnette will make the roster? 

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15 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

 

Arnette at 42:20. Horrible at off man, good at press man. Douglas is not a bad backup outside corner.

I always thought it made no sense to draft a guy whose forte was press man and who obviously struggled playing off and in zone and then play him off and less aggressively. Especially when there were other, higher graded CBs available that fit better what we did with him.

I wanted Jaylon Johnson precisely as he was much better reading the QB and playing off like I thought we would eventually use our CBs, Arnette needs to be up on his guy, getting hands on them and being physical. 

He looked OK to me when he could get his hands on the receiver, good against Tyreek Hill I thought, and that is a tough assignment so he does have some promise.

Edited by Darbsk
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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

I always thought it made no sense to draft a guy whose forte was press man and who obviously struggled playing off and in zone and then play him off and less aggressively. Especially when there were other, higher graded CBs available that fit better what we did with him.

I wanted Jaylon Johnson precisely as he was much better reading the QB and playing off like I thought we would eventually use our CBs, Arnette needs to be up on his guy, getting hands on them and being physical. 

He looked OK to me when he could get his hands on the receiver, good against Tyreek Hill I thought, and that is a tough assignment so he does have some promise.

Plenty of promise but I think our coaching staff on the defensive side really hurt the players.  Even our best players had stretches were we did not know why they playing poorly and making dumb mistakes.

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13 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

Plenty of promise but I think our coaching staff on the defensive side really hurt the players.  Even our best players had stretches were we did not know why they playing poorly and making dumb mistakes.

Yeh, I know we go through the phase of optimism after a change of coaching staff but for the first time in a long while I genuinely feel that we may have a good DC and defensive coaching setup in place. Of course, I'll half expect to be disappointed but maybe, just maybe Bradley is the guy to at least get us back to average. He's saying all the right things and he has a decent track record. He didn't ride on another guys coattails or just step in to an already setup defence like Guenther so I think we can be justifiably optimistic this time.

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

Yeh, I know we go through the phase of optimism after a change of coaching staff but for the first time in a long while I genuinely feel that we may have a good DC and defensive coaching setup in place. Of course, I'll half expect to be disappointed but maybe, just maybe Bradley is the guy to at least get us back to average. He's saying all the right things and he has a decent track record. He didn't ride on another guys coattails or just step in to an already setup defence like Guenther so I think we can be justifiably optimistic this time.

I agree 100%.  Bradley has me optimistic but being a Raider fan makes me pessimistic.  I do not think Bradley is a top DC but should see a dramatic improvement over Guenther. 

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1 hour ago, drfrey13 said:

I agree 100%.  Bradley has me optimistic but being a Raider fan makes me pessimistic.  I do not think Bradley is a top DC but should see a dramatic improvement over Guenther. 

Yeh I think if we can even be just below league average that makes a huge difference. A couple of points less per game conceded, a couple extra turnovers, a few better instances of field position for our offence all adds up to possibly 2 or 3 wins maybe. That's what we need to sneak into the playoffs then any given Sunday 🙂

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