Raiders Defense

[Bitty 2.0]

In my opinion the late season slide is because the Raiders have 0 depth on this team. As the season goes on and the staters get banged up there's no one to step up without a huge drop off. Hell the starters can't even catch their breath on the sideline without our defense getting killed.

[Bitty 2.0]

7 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Cooper was a 1000 yard WR before Carr started ignoring him and as soon as he was traded he went back to being who he was.   How is he the 3rd on the team when he leads them it targets, catches, yards, and TDs?  Did he drop passes while he was here? Yes he did but so did all of our receivers.

Ruggs I do not know what will happen but he was drafted to high.  That is on the FO.

Carr does make players better.  O-line because he does not plays develope and gets rid of the ball to quickly.  TEs because they seem to be the only position he trusts.  RBs because they get so many looks in the passing game from check downs.  Carr has issues and is improving but how far I do not know.

Brady in key moments would have faired much better than Carr.  Are we a Super Bowl team?  99% sure we are not.  Are we a playoff team?  I think we pull it off.  Brady is a coach on the field and would be one of a couple QBs that would tell Gruden it was a crap play and that is why I changed it.

Carr stands no chance taking TB to the SB.  He is not winning at Lambeau in late January.  

What kind of #1 WR can't beat a double team?

He kills it 4 games of year when he is single covered when he doubled he gets 30 yd a game. He's been doing it his whole career with the Raiders and with Dallas. 

[NCOUGHMAN]

5 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

In my opinion the late season slide is because the Raiders have 0 depth on this team. As the season goes on and the staters get banged up there's no one to step up without a huge drop off. Hell the starters can't even catch their breath on the sideline without our defense getting killed.

Same with the turnovers on offense 

[BackinBlack]

19 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Because he crumbles the second half of the season, when the games actually matter?

little secret, but a game week 1, means the exact same as a game week 16. 
There are only 17 games a year, every one matters. You are crazy if you think other wise. 
 

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. We held Drew Lock to 12 points lol. Cause celebré indeed. 

Ok, we'll add it. Still gave up 31.12 points. Still good for one of the the absolute worst marks in the league.

2. The Falcons loss was a team effort. It was a bad game all around. And most teams have them at some point, even the good ones. To place that squarely on Carr is cherry picking at its finest. 

The Colts, ok, we'll take away the pick 6 so our putrid D only gave up 38. They CRUSHED it, didn't they? No, they didn't. Hard to say the offense "crapped the bed" at that clip. 

There's no reason to take either game out of the equation, certainly not 2 lol. 

We can drop the Falcons game though. Still gave up 29.14 ppg, which is still garbage. 

3. Do you know the definition of cherry picking? My comparisons didn't blindly ignore the Denver game, I went from our last win before totally melting down. Which I also accounted for by using the last 7 games for the other teams as well. 

That's called a control. You're arguing to throw out the Falcons game and Colts game. The Falcons, ok, I just did and the results were negligible. I'm not throwing oit the Colts game. That you argue the offense crapped the bed when the D was still on pace to give up 38 is absurd. Hell, take away another score from Indy of you want. Still piss poor. 

The Falcons and Colts games had 8 TOs that directly led to scores.  The defense in the Falcons game held them to FGs after every TO except 1 and the average drive length after the TOs was 25 yards.  That does not even count the pick 6.  The Colts game we held them to FGs after every TO except the pick 6 again.  One TO we held them to 9 yards after the TO and the other they drove 78 yards on us so I will put one FG on the defense in each game because there was one drive of 49 yards in the Falcons game that led to a FG.  The longest drive besides those 2 was 35 yards with only 1 TD, given up in the 4th when we were already down 33 to 6, given up on 6 TOs that the opposing team did have a pick six on.  You really want to put that on the defense.  So yes I will stick to my original post and maybe bump it up 2/3s of a point average over the 8 games to compensate for the 2 FGs.  So 26 points per game.

Yes it is cherry picking when the entire conversation has been about Carr in the 2nd half of the season and you start one game after that throws out their best performance of the season.  Who cares if the Broncos suck.  Should I throw out the Bucs game and the 2 KC games because they were both in the SB?

[ronjon1990]

7 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

In my opinion the late season slide is because the Raiders have 0 depth on this team. As the season goes on and the staters get banged up there's no one to step up without a huge drop off. Hell the starters can't even catch their breath on the sideline without our defense getting killed.

I can agree with this 100%

[drfrey13]

9 hours ago, ronjon1990 said:

1. Didn't get open. Dropped balls when he was. I'd ignore him too. 

2. A WR3 playing as a WR1 because of how much was invested in him? He's clearly behind Lamb and Gallup long term. Dallas isn't keeping him. But, hey, if I was playing in that WR corps, I'd get open a lot too. Cooper needs better players around him to make any kind of real iimpact, and that's why he'll be on his 3rd team before long. 

3. Really now?  Because the only D that made the playoffs amd gave up nearly as many points was Tennessee, who rode the best RB in the NFL amd a pretty good offense to an 11-5 record thanks to having Houston and Jacksonville, two of the worst teams in the league, on their schedule twice. Any other division, they're fighting for 9-7 at best, considering how close they got to losing several times. 

Because YOU CAN'T WIN WITH A BOTTOM OF THE PILE DEFENSE NO MATTER WHO YOUR QB IS. 

And if you need the greatest QB of all time to win a couple of more games before inevitably getting blown out in the playoffs, QB isn't your problem. YOUR DEFENSE IS.

In the WR room Cooper is clearly #1.  He receives the most attention from defenses out of the 3.  He dropped balls with the Raiders but so did everyone else.  Cooper's drop per target are about the same as Julio Jones and he has been much better since he left the Raiders.

As far as Brady is concerned I said I think we pull it off.  I even stated that we would not have done what the Bucs did.  If you think Carr was a better QB than Brady last year then you can have your opinion but mine is different.

I have never said that Carr is the issue with this team.  I have said he could improve and he has carries a huge part of the blame in some games but my opinion of who is the problem does not even rank Carr.  My number one issue was Guenther and is now getting a dominant inside force on the D-line.  So yes I agree that our biggest issue is the defense.  I have never said they were even close to average.

[ronjon1990]

15 minutes ago, drfrey13 said:

The Falcons and Colts games had 8 TOs that directly led to scores.  The defense in the Falcons game held them to FGs after every TO except 1 and the average drive length after the TOs was 25 yards.  That does not even count the pick 6.  The Colts game we held them to FGs after every TO except the pick 6 again.  One TO we held them to 9 yards after the TO and the other they drove 78 yards on us so I will put one FG on the defense in each game because there was one drive of 49 yards in the Falcons game that led to a FG.  The longest drive besides those 2 was 35 yards with only 1 TD, given up in the 4th when we were already down 33 to 6, given up on 6 TOs that the opposing team did have a pick six on.  You really want to put that on the defense.  So yes I will stick to my original post and maybe bump it up 2/3s of a point average over the 8 games to compensate for the 2 FGs.  So 26 points per game.

Yes it is cherry picking when the entire conversation has been about Carr in the 2nd half of the season and you start one game after that throws out their best performance of the season.  Who cares if the Broncos suck.  Should I throw out the Bucs game and the 2 KC games because they were both in the SB?

Uh? Ok. One game they played good in. And we won. And from that poit forward, they were beyond putrid. I didn't include it initially, because:

1. "second half" is fairly arbitrary in itself. 

2. We hadn't started losing or sliding yet. Had we won more of those games the D was laughably bad in, nobody is bringing Carr up in the first place as someone who can't get us to the playoffs. 

I also went back and added it, showing that it MADE ZERO DIFFERENCE IN THE GAMES WE LOST AND DID NOT MAKE THEM AN APPRECIABLY BETTER DEFENSE. 

I don't know how much clearer I could possibly have made that. If your argument hinges on 1 game, you're argument is bad lol.

Edited July 5, 2021 by ronjon1990

[drfrey13]

4 hours ago, Bitty 2.0 said:

What kind of #1 WR can't beat a double team?

He kills it 4 games of year when he is single covered when he doubled he gets 30 yd a game. He's been doing it his whole career with the Raiders and with Dallas. 

I do not think he is worth the money he is getting paid.  I just take exception when some people try to say he is garbage.  It is tough to perform on a weekly basis as a WR because if a team wants to the can shut you down.  Especially in Dallas where they have 3 good options.  Cooper takes the #1 CB and recieves the double teams and still produces well.  

For those that criticize Cooper I got a good stat.

Jerry Rice had 100 yard games in 25% of his games played.

Amari Cooper has had 100 yard games 25.8% of his games played.

In fairness though Julio is around 45% and AB is 34%.  

Almost all players have issues and Cooper's is consistency but he is not a bad player.  Just not good enough to be the #4 pick or paid $20 million a year.  I think we won the trade with Dallas but then lost it when we made our selection.

[drfrey13]

18 minutes ago, ronjon1990 said:

Uh? Ok. One game they played good in. And we won. And from that poit forward, they were beyond putrid. I didn't include it initially, because:

1. "second half" is fairly arbitrary in itself. 

2. We hadn't started losing or sliding yet. Had we won more of those games the D was laughably bad in, nobody is bringing Carr up in the first place as someone who can't get us to the playoffs. 

I also went back and added it, showing that it MADE ZERO DIFFERENCE IN THE GAMES WE LOST AND DID NOT MAKE THEM AN APPRECIABLY BETTER DEFENSE. 

I don't know how much clearer I could possibly have made that. If your argument hinges on 1 game, you're argument is bad lol.

My argument was not that the defense was good but rather there was more to the argument than what was stated.  If we turn the ball over and the defense holds the team to a three and out but they kick a FG because their starting field position was on our 25 then I do not count that against the defense the same way I would not count a pick six.  The original argument was Carr's performance in the second half.  Some want to say it is Carr's fault and some what to say it is the defense's fault.  I am saying it depends on the game.  If we had a middle of the road defense we probably make the playoffs so I in no way shape or form believe Carr can not get us to the playoffs.  I question how well he will perform once he is there but that I said earlier he will have to prove himself in cold weather.  Not that it is a sure thing he is going to fail.  You have made your point and I am not trying to argue the overall point but rather pointing out that it is not completely black and white.

[Humble_Beast]

Kwit ranked high by PFF as a top LB

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-entering-2021-nfl-season

[drfrey13]

On 7/6/2021 at 9:27 AM, Humble_Beast said:

Kwit ranked high by PFF as a top LB

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-linebacker-rankings-entering-2021-nfl-season

Looks like my offseason wish list for the past decade.  I have pounded the table for a lot of those guys in the draft or FA.  

[NCOUGHMAN]

2 hours ago, drfrey13 said:

Looks like my offseason wish list for the past decade.  I have pounded the table for a lot of those guys in the draft or FA.  

Devin ranked lower than kwit…interesting 

[Jerry]

11 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Devin ranked lower than kwit…interesting 

From what I've read, Devin didn't really break out until the playoffs.  He may step his game up but we'll see.  I remember reading he was one dimensional, but watching him play in the playoffs he was lights out across the board IMO.

[drfrey13]

13 hours ago, NCOUGHMAN said:

Devin ranked lower than kwit…interesting 

Kwit is a solid LBer who plays to his abilities.  White is still developing but has an upward trajectory.  White can do things that Kwit can only dream of but when you take their overall play level I am not surprised.  If it is this way after this year I will be a little surprised.  White still needs to cut down on the false steps and maybe take it down a notch.  He still takes to many false steps.  If he waits that extra .1 of a second for confirmation he can still make the play but will drastically cut down on mistakes.  He has Wagner and Willis potential along with a last name that starts with W.