Raiders Defense

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

OK you could say that Tyran Mathieu never played safety in college. Or that Brian Urlacher never played linebacker in college. There's a lot of people you can do that with lol

So we should expect Muse, White, and Deablo to do it because Mathieu and Urlacher did it? Mathieu was a consensus All-American and Heisman Trophy finalist as a defensive back at LSU. Urlacher did play LB and was a consensus All-American that went #9 in the draft, lol. 

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Urlacher enrolled at the University of New Mexico, majored in criminology, and played for the Lobos.[5] Their head coach, Dennis Franchione, converted Urlacher to linebacker, but often left him on the sidelines in favor of more experienced players.[3] The team finished with winning records during Urlacher's first two years and even made a trip to the 1997 Insight.com Bowl.[3] The team's success prompted Franchione to leave New Mexico in favor of Texas Christian University. His departure prompted the school to hire Rocky Long, a former coach at UCLA.

Urlacher flourished under Long's tenure.[3] Urlacher not only received more playing time, but also played a more versatile role on both offense and defense. Long converted Urlacher into a "Lobo-Back",[6] a cross between a linebacker and free safety, and placed him in a 3-3-5 defense scheme.[7] 

 

 

[NYRaider]

Tom Brady was the 199th pick, Peterman was the 171st pick, could he become the next Brady?

[Jeremy408]

23 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

So we should expect Muse, White, and Deablo to do it because Mathieu and Urlacher did it? Mathieu was a consensus All-American and Heisman Trophy finalist as a defensive back at LSU. Urlacher did play LB and was a consensus All-American that went #9 in the draft, lol. 

 

deion jones 

telvin smith 

Shaq Thompson 

Kyzer white 

Nick Morrow

Deone Buchannon

Mark Barron(safety for years in the nfl until switching to linebacker with no previous snaps)

Danny Trevathan

What's your excuse for them?

Edited September 2, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NYRaider]

26 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

deion jones 

telvin smith 

Shaq Thompson 

Kyzer white 

Nick Morrow

Deone Buchannon

Mark Barron(safety for years in the nfl until switching to linebacker with no previous snaps)

Danny Trevathan

What's your excuse for them?

I never said that it can't be done but we have 3 rookies who are trying to do it as our only depth at LB. Deion Jones and Shaq Thompson were both early draft picks. Morrow, Trevathan, and White all played sparingly as backups early in their careers. Barron, Smith, and Buchannon aren't even in the league anymore. 

Javin White is going to be on IR to start the season along with Morrow. If Littleton gets hurt do you really trust either Muse (who wasn't even good enough to make the team so he was stashed on IR) or Deablo (who missed most of OTA and TC) to start and play well? lol

[ronjon1990]

54 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

OK you could say that Tyran Mathieu never played safety in college. Or that Brian Urlacher never played linebacker in college. There's a lot of people you can do that with lol

Mathieu transitioned to S after proving he could actually play in the NFL though. 

Urlacher began his career at New Mexico as a LB before Rocky Long installed the 3-3-5 and he became the Lobo. 

Moreover, both of these guys were considered some of the nation's best overall players, offense or defense, in college. Both took home quite a bit of hardware for their efforts. The likelihood that they could transition (Mathieu) or revert (Urlacher) in the pros were infinitely more likely than not. 

Muse and Deablo were ok S's. That's it. No offense to either, and I hope both work out long term, but they were big S's who would never make it at S in the pros. They weren't amongst the elite like Mathieu or Urlacher.

That isn't what you blow day 2 picks on. You spend a day 2 pick on a probable starter or some absolute stud who might change positions, not someone who practically had to change positions out of necessity. 

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, ronjon1990 said:

Muse and Deablo were ok S's. That's it. No offense to either, and I hope both work out long term, but they were big S's who would never make it at S in the pros. They weren't amongst the elite like Mathieu or Urlacher.

That isn't what you blow day 2 picks on. You spend a day 2 pick on a probable starter or some absolute stud who might change positions, not someone who practically had to change positions out of necessity. 

The Raiders have ignored LB for over a decade and we're supposed to have faith that White, Muse, and Deablo will be ready to play a position they've never played before if Littleton gets hurt, lol. 

ETA: Urlacher was an All-American and top 10 pick, Mathieu almost won the Heisman and would've been a high pick if not for his off the field issues. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by NYRaider

[NYRaider]

I feel more confident in Diablo than Muse. 

Diablo:

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Deablo has exceptional size and length. He also has a developing skill set that could make him a match for Cover 3 defenses at the Robber spot or as a hybrid player who's able to handle coverage duties and play near the line of scrimmage. While he has the strength and athletic ability to cover tight ends, he will need to improve his route recognition to make more plays on the football. Deablo has the demeanor to make a living in the box as a bigger body who can slow the run and be used as a matchup defender against teams running heavy 12 personnel. He has the potential to become a starter in the future.

Muse:

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Slow-footed safety with hybrid linebacker tendencies. Muse plays with tight, restricted movement that lacks necessary fluidity to handle coverage duties as an NFL safety and he'll likely be asked to slide into a full-time linebacker role. He already has linebacker size and his frame should be able to handle additional weight if needed. His field agility and short-area athleticism aren't anything special despite moving over from safety. Muse's ability to cover tight ends and handle four-phase special teams duties improve his chances of making the backend of a roster.

 

[Turnobili]

 

[ronjon1990]

57 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

deion jones 

telvin smith 

Shaq Thompson 

Kyzer white 

Nick Morrow

Deone Buchannon

Mark Barron(safety for years in the nfl until switching to linebacker with no previous snaps)

Danny Trevathan

What's your excuse for them?

Deion Jones- he's been a LB since High School...

Telvin Smith- was a LB at FSU....

Shaq Thompson- played all over Washington's D and was one of the best defenders in the country. Would've been a top 2 round pick at LB or S. 

Kyzir White- he's ok

Nick Morrow- pretty good, also UDFA

Deonne Bucannon- had a cup of coffee and hasn't stuck since. Clearly LB didn't really work out for him that well.

Mark Barron- good S, good LB. Was also considered among the best players in the nation coming out. Like Mathieu, proved he could actually make it in the NFL before moving spots. 

Danny Tevathan- was a LB at Kentucky...

 

Jones, Smith, Thompson, Barron, and Tevathan were drafted to play positions they actually played, and Thompson would've been drafted at like 3 positions. People forget just how dynamic he was at Washington. Barron was successful before switching.

White is ok. Bucannon flamed out and hasn't been able to stick at LB on some pretty barren squads. 

Morrow was a UDFA. Notice nobody criticizes Javin White? Because the investment was minimal. 

None of those guys that were drafted were drafted with the preconceived notion to switch their position with the exception of maybe Bucannon who ultimately flopped. White's move came during camp, though he was probably drafted to play LB. 

So of the guys you listed, 5 of the 7 are different situations altogether, 1 was a UDFA, one was a hit- sort of, while the other flamed out. 

Kyzir White is the lone draftee to be drafted with the intention of switching positions and still be relevant. Bucannon's time was pathetically brief (hint: don't take a guy like that that early). 

So both Deablo and Muse are pretty clear outliers...... pretty easy to explain really. 

 

 

[Jeremy408]

25 minutes ago, NYRaider said:

I never said that it can't be done but we have 3 rookies who are trying to do it as our only depth at LB. Deion Jones and Shaq Thompson were both early draft picks. Morrow, Trevathan, and White all played sparingly as backups early in their careers. Barron, Smith, and Buchannon aren't even in the league anymore. 

Javin White is going to be on IR to start the season along with Morrow. If Littleton gets hurt do you really trust either Muse (who wasn't even good enough to make the team so he was stashed on IR) or Deablo (who missed most of OTA and TC) to start and play well? lol

Except it's not. We have Kwiat he's been in the NFL for five years and Perryman that's been in the NFL for like eight? Which ever one start the other ones going to back up the other that's hardly a lack of depth. I don't think we should put Muse at WLB. never said that.

But you did mention that Trevathan in Morrow played as back ups early in their careers. That sounds like Diablo and white lol. 

You also said Shaq Thompson(1st) and Dion Jones(2nd) that sounds like Diablo(3rd) and Muse(3rd)(although they were drafted lower clearly) 

What you said about Mark Barron Telvin Smith and Buchanan have either to do with their age(Buchanan/Mark Barron) or off the field issues(Telvin Smith) rather than they couldn't play when they were playing lololol. 

The issue with either way you go what collapses on itself if you say that they were drafted too high they were people that were drafted higher and still converted; if he say they should play sparingly as back ups that's what they're doing

Wait a minute what was your point again?

 

[Jeremy408]

3 minutes ago, Turnobili said:

 

And there you go. 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Jeremy408

[NYRaider]

1 minute ago, Jeremy408 said:

Wait a minute what was your point again?

That going into the season with our only depth at LB being 3 guys who are essentially rookies and were safeties in college. But that problem was solved with KJ Wright's deal and also shows the staff felt the same way, lol. 

[Dessie]

2 minutes ago, Jeremy408 said:

And there you go. 

Guess that’s what we were creating room for, wonder what the contract is. 

[Jeremy408]

1 minute ago, NYRaider said:

That going into the season with our only depth at LB being 3 guys who are essentially rookies and were safeties in college. But that problem was solved with KJ Wright's deal and also shows the staff felt the same way, lol. 

Or they wanted KJ Wrights demands to come down(which it obviously did) lol

[NYRaider]

Just now, Jeremy408 said:

Or they wanted KJ Wrights demands to come down(which it obviously did) lol

The team signed KJ Wright and traded for Denzel Perryman because they knew we needed proven depth at LB.