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2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

That's even worse though, tearing it down a second time after tearing it down three years prior for the Paul Guenther experience........ Shows what a complete shambles that first 'rebuild' was on the defensive side of the ball.

I do have a modicum of belief that we may get it semi-right this time though but that's more to do with Gus Bradley than Grudens ability to build a team unfortunately.

I actually respect that because they’re righting the wrongs from sticking with Gunther. 

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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

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You should have posted the 2017 roster. Not done the math but i'd guesstimate 75% of the 2017 roster is out of the league as we speak.

Did the math, it's 72%.

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1 minute ago, oakdb36 said:

You should have posted the 2017 roster. Not done the math but i'd guesstimate 75% of the 2017 roster is out of the league as we speak.

I said that a few months ago but it was back before training camp where Heard how good Leatherwood and Hobbs looked. So everyone just ignored it

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2 hours ago, NYRaider said:

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There's no Khalil Mack in the first roster, that is post Gruden joining and post his first draft. The 2017 roster wasn't terrible IMO and pretty much everyone (including talking heads) thought we'd make the playoffs and were an up and coming team. 

That's if your implying that this year's team is much better than that roster?

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1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

I actually respect that because they’re righting the wrongs from sticking with Gunther. 

True but it also shows what a collosal mistake Guenther was and compounded by pandering to his whims with free agents and draft picks to suit his 'scheme'.

I like Gruden as a coach, I like Mayock as a talent evaluator. What I don't like is the hierarchy setup with Gruden ultimately in charge over the GM and don't trust Gruden in personnel decisions. IF Gruden sticks to coaching and IF Mayock sticks to player acquisition and IF we have the right DC then it can work well I think, but that's three massive IFs! 

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1 hour ago, Darbsk said:

True but it also shows what a collosal mistake Guenther was and compounded by pandering to his whims with free agents and draft picks to suit his 'scheme'.

I like Gruden as a coach, I like Mayock as a talent evaluator. What I don't like is the hierarchy setup with Gruden ultimately in charge over the GM and don't trust Gruden in personnel decisions. IF Gruden sticks to coaching and IF Mayock sticks to player acquisition and IF we have the right DC then it can work well I think, but that's three massive IFs! 

ABSOLUTELY!!! In reality he should've been fired after 2019. Once he came back in 2020 I knew we weren't going anywhere. 

I also like Gruden as a coach and Mayock as a talent evaluator(I actually never heard anybody else on this forum say that besides me so I find that interesting). Ultimately the biggest problem is it's pretty clear that Gruden kept Paul gone there because they were friends. there are no credentials that justify him having a bottom feeder defense for three years straight and you keep him and continue to invest resources into what he called a defense.

Like I said earlier in the off-season everything that the Raiders have done bad since the Gruden Mayock era (with the exception of Lynn Bowden) can be summed up to that fact. 

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2 hours ago, Darbsk said:

There's no Khalil Mack in the first roster, that is post Gruden joining and post his first draft. The 2017 roster wasn't terrible IMO and pretty much everyone (including talking heads) thought we'd make the playoffs and were an up and coming team. 

That's if your implying that this year's team is much better than that roster?

Looks like a few differences from the 2017 roster I posted.  I would say the defense now is much better than the defense in 2017 at least on paper.  Only 3 players I take over what we have now if you have Mack on that list.  I would take the 2017 offense over what we have now.

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3 hours ago, oakdb36 said:

You should have posted the 2017 roster. Not done the math but i'd guesstimate 75% of the 2017 roster is out of the league as we speak.

Did the math, it's 72%.

That's a comparison of week 1 during Gruden's first year vs his fourth year. 

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4 hours ago, Darbsk said:

There's no Khalil Mack in the first roster, that is post Gruden joining and post his first draft. The 2017 roster wasn't terrible IMO and pretty much everyone (including talking heads) thought we'd make the playoffs and were an up and coming team. 

That's if your implying that this year's team is much better than that roster?

It's night and day. I don't see anyone on defense outside of Mack who would start on defense. On offense, we're a lot younger. IOL and WR are worse, but RB, TE, and tackle should be better. QB should be better too because Carr had a rough year in 2017 (I remember well).

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6 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's night and day. I don't see anyone on defense outside of Mack who would start on defense. On offense, we're a lot younger. IOL and WR are worse, but RB, TE, and tackle should be better. QB should be better too because Carr had a rough year in 2017 (I remember well).

Assuming they were 2017 level the only other guys that might start would be Bruce Irvin at SLB and TJ Carrie at SCB. 

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6 hours ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

It's night and day. I don't see anyone on defense outside of Mack who would start on defense. On offense, we're a lot younger. IOL and WR are worse, but RB, TE, and tackle should be better. QB should be better too because Carr had a rough year in 2017 (I remember well).

Neither Cooper or Crabtree played very well in 2017. 

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16 hours ago, NYRaider said:

Week_1_depth_chart.png

To be fair, Mack is All Pro obviously but Irvin was very good for a year or two also, Mario Edwards is still playing for Chicago I think and had 4 or 5 sacks last year didn't he? Autry I always really liked as a rotation piece and he's had decent success in Indy. Ellis was OK and solid. You guys know I like Joseph and I thought Smith was solid when used right too. Carrie Was a good 3rd CB so though it's not a 'good' defensive roster, it's not a total dumpster fire (love that phrase some of you guys use😁)

This year's D should be better on paper, with a much better DC also so that should translate to middle of the pack hopefully.

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