Raiders Defense

[Jeremy408]

43 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

1000% why I always keep acquiring pass rushers. Keep pressure on, you make life much easier on defense. 

Right like for example I thought that the Niners pass rush in 2019 actually prolonged Richard Sherman's career. It just looks different when the quarterback doesn't have as much time to throw the ball. 

[Darbsk]

2 hours ago, Jraider91 said:

Yeah, I'd consider a CB in R2 even if we have good ones because that player even at our pick could be a fringe first rounder in a lot of drafts. 

Hopefully we'll be in a situation where we can simply take the best impact players almost regardless of position. You can never have enough good corners in this passing era. We really do need to stop heading into the draft with glaring holes that everyone knows what position we have to pick 😁 

If the player drops then we should be in a position to take the quality prospect over a reach for need.

[Darbsk]

1 hour ago, SBXISBXVSBXVIII said:

You don't know who Marino is? Wow, just wow. 

He's the guy from Ace Ventura pet detective isn't he?? 🤔😁

[Jraider91]

7 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is a bit lazy and shows you don't know know much about how Georgia's defense is played. He's not asked to "get sacks and put up stats". His role is taking on blockers and keeping LBs clean to blitz, run and be disruptive. 

Vea isn't a stat sheet player either, but he absolutely wrecks games. 

Vea is absolutely huge against the run but it took him until this season to add pass rush dimension consistently to his game. He also isn't a like for like with Davis either, he plays with lower leverage. Only thing lazy is seeing two big NT and assuming their impact will be exactly the same. 

I think coverage and pass rush are heavily linked and that neither is necessarily more valuable than the other. However in our system the D-Line is more important vs a blitz heavy man coverage system. 

Edited October 28, 2021 by Jraider91

[MrOaktown_56]

9 hours ago, big_palooka said:

This is a bit lazy and shows you don't know know much about how Georgia's defense is played. He's not asked to "get sacks and put up stats". His role is taking on blockers and keeping LBs clean to blitz, run and be disruptive. 

Vea isn't a stat sheet player either, but he absolutely wrecks games. 

If you get a guy who can dominate against the run, you can make a team 1 dimensional and that's priceless. Not many DT's like that in the league.

[Jeremy408]

1 hour ago, MrOaktown_56 said:

If you get a guy who can dominate against the run, you can make a team 1 dimensional and that's priceless. Not many DT's like that in the league.

Those are actually easy to find. The problem is they’re usually not good at rushing the passer

[big_palooka]

13 hours ago, Jraider91 said:

Vea is absolutely huge against the run but it took him until this season to add pass rush dimension consistently to his game. He also isn't a like for like with Davis either, he plays with lower leverage. Only thing lazy is seeing two big NT and assuming their impact will be exactly the same. 

I think coverage and pass rush are heavily linked and that neither is necessarily more valuable than the other. However in our system the D-Line is more important vs a blitz heavy man coverage system. 

You made my point for me. Vea was an athletic marvel. You knew he could take up space early. You knew he could develop as a pass rusher because of his unique skill. He was raw coming out, had issues with leverage and needed to develop. 

Davis, is an athletic freak of nature for his size. He too will develop as a pass rusher as he has quick twitch and burst. He needs to refine his pass rush moves and work on leverage as well. 

It's not lazy at all to think he can develop similar to Vea. What's lazy is seeing two big NTs and not realizing that Davis is actually further along that Vea was coming out. More explosive, better feet, quicker change of direction. His ceiling is arguably higher. 

[Jeremy408]

Right now I will go Jordan Davis just because he’s the only clear need that we know right now that’s worthy of a first round pick

[big_palooka]

1 hour ago, Jeremy408 said:

Right now I will go Jordan Davis just because he’s the only clear need that we know right now that’s worthy of a first round pick

DT, CB, LB, Oline - any pick there would be worthwhile in round 1. 

This Oline class looks delicious which should bode well for help in the trenches

[Jeremy408]

39 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

DT, CB, LB, Oline - any pick there would be worthwhile in round 1. 

This Oline class looks delicious which should bode well for help in the trenches

In terms of actual need we have a lot of those weird needs. For example one of our needs is going to be guard when we eventually put Leatherwood back at right tackle(because we didn't draft him in the 1st to play guard). But guards not really at first round position

Corner isn't an actual need but don't get me wrong if we're able to get what we think is a shut down corner in the first round then let's shoot for it. But it has to actually be one otherwise we should just pay Fayscon(assuming he plays relatively well this season) or someone we think might just fit the system because the pass rush right now should be main priority. That said I don't feel like this corner back class is very good outside of #7 from LSU. So I personally think we should avoid corner in the first round. 

Linebacker in the first round actually makes sense in my opinion I can see a good one being there in the 20s. 

And run stuffing defensive tackle is not really a first round position. Sometimes you can get those guys on the third day. 

Agree with what you're saying about online class this year for sure we should be able to get some quality players on the second day in that regard which is what I'm looking for them to do I emphasizing defense on the first day. 

 

[Jraider91]

6 hours ago, big_palooka said:

You made my point for me. Vea was an athletic marvel. You knew he could take up space early. You knew he could develop as a pass rusher because of his unique skill. He was raw coming out, had issues with leverage and needed to develop. 

Davis, is an athletic freak of nature for his size. He too will develop as a pass rusher as he has quick twitch and burst. He needs to refine his pass rush moves and work on leverage as well. 

It's not lazy at all to think he can develop similar to Vea. What's lazy is seeing two big NTs and not realizing that Davis is actually further along that Vea was coming out. More explosive, better feet, quicker change of direction. His ceiling is arguably higher. 

Lol, if you think Vea had issues with leverage I question whether you have ever watched Davis. He is taller and plays basically straight up, he has no pass rush moves to refine. He is a very good prospect, late 1st rounder.

I doubt Davis' tests as quick as Vea either, maybe 40 time due to his height but short area I would be very surprised. That could catapult him though. 
 

[big_palooka]

@Jeremy408 You're downplaying CB a good deal I feel. Let's not overreact to Facyson's against 2 bad QBs. He's a scheme fit, great depth, but you can't pencil him in as a starter going forward. 

Hayward will be 33 and a FA. Mullen has looked okay and should be fine at 1 spot. Hobbs has solidified himself at nickel. I wouldn't trust much else.

DT is going to be a need clearly. Hankins, Jefferson, Thomas and Philon are all FAs.

DT, CB are still the top 2 needs on defense imo 

[big_palooka]

16 minutes ago, Jraider91 said:

Lol, if you think Vea had issues with leverage I question whether you have ever watched Davis. He is taller and plays basically straight up, he has no pass rush moves to refine. He is a very good prospect, late 1st rounder.

I doubt Davis' tests as quick as Vea either, maybe 40 time due to his height but short area I would be very surprised. That could catapult him though. 
 

I never said Davis did not have issues with leverage. He's very inconsistent with it currently but STILL dominate in the SEC. The kid is on Heismann watch as a NT anchoring a historically great defense. 

I'll just leave it at that as you're to the "putting words in my mouth" phase in your argument.

I'll see you in the post season.

[Jeremy408]

4 minutes ago, big_palooka said:

@Jeremy408 You're downplaying CB a good deal I feel. Let's not overreact to Facyson's against 2 bad QBs. He's a scheme fit, great depth, but you can't pencil him in as a starter going forward. 

Hayward will be 33 and a FA. Mullen has looked okay and should be fine at 1 spot. Hobbs has solidified himself at nickel. I wouldn't trust much else.

DT is going to be a need clearly. Hankins, Jefferson, Thomas and Philon are all FAs.

DT, CB are still the top 2 needs on defense imo 

No overraction. Notice I put parentheses every time I mention fayscon's future with the team sayin "assuming he plays relatively well this season". I'm definitely aware of the fact that he's only played two games. I'm speaking to a couple of things that need to be considered.

1. In the Seattle cover three noticed over the years there has never been a first round corner drafted among ANY of the teams that run the scheme. Only one time ever was ever you could say was Jalen Ramsey was picked number five overall by Gus Bradley in the year he got fired. Why is this? Things you do get for the seattle cover 3 defense that you need to make sure you have is pass rush. Its the common denominator every time. Corner on the other hand you need some talent but it's not the number one priority. It's why you can just pull someone like Fayscon off of the street in the first place and because he's been in the scheme he can play at the very least competent football. 

2. I'm not saying that you shouldn't get a corner it's just should you get a corner in the first round. Agreed the Casey Hayward is both old and is probably going to get overpaid. Leaving a vacant corner Sabah it's not that we need to fill the spot is how we need to fill the spot. 

3. Sure DT is going to be a need on paper but the reality is we just need to bring one or two of those guys back and I also don't think it's a stretch to bring all of them back. Hankins is in a different category and it's going to get brought back for cheap every year until he can't play anymore. But when it comes down to Jefferson Thomas and Philon, we really only need to bring two of them back. Why do I say that? Because there's been a few weeks now where one of the three has been inactive and the other two have played well. Out of the three we really need to just bring back Solomon Thomas and then one of the other two and we'll be solid. 

Again, overall, not saying that they're not needed I'm saying I don't consider them first round needs(At least not right now)

 

[oakdb36]

15th in pts/game

10th in yds/game