🦅🤠 NFC East 🤷‍♂️🆘 | Celebrating the Cowboys' 28 Years of Sadness

[Matts4313]

19 minutes ago, MikeT14 said:

Why did that do it? That's weird.

Happened in the Cowboys forum as well. Not half the active posters, but all the one off guys that would pop in. We have like 10 posters total now. 

[Matts4313]

37 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Just messin with you mattsy.

Honestly I find the whole thing silly. Like what metrics do we even use. Bulk stats tell One stories, watching tape to see what the can actually do is another. Dak playing more games and the eagles not have WRs really two of his 4 seasons hurt Carson’s individual stats. Or do you just go with the stats are the stats and Dak looks better there.

there isn’t really a RIGHT answer and we are never going to land on one until they are both healthy on comparable teams for a couple seasons. If even then. S

I think it’s tough to compare them honestly. Even if you somehow remove bias.

 

My honest take...

Carson has much more talent as a QB and can elevate his team, however gets handicapped by his injuries and clearly wants very specific things from his teammates...which rubs less intense guys the wrong way. When he’s clicking and has a rosterable talent he can throw to...he can be a top 5 QB. 

Dak is a good NFL QB. He needs a good cast around him to be that, like top 10 or 20 type talent. But most teams would love to have a guy like Dak. I don’t think he is close to being as advanced as Carson as a QB, but he gets results. He needs to continue to get better, but has one of the best surrounding casts. So he should. 
 

Also, Romo was a really good QB on very overhyped teams and had trash coaching. You guys should’ve been pushing for a SB but sucked when it counted. I feel bad for him. I think sometimes you maybe take us making fun of the team as genuine criticisms on the players. I liked Romo, but he was the Cowboys QB...so he sucked. Now that he’s done it’s all good. I think being in the crappy division skews are views on guys. Like Romo was dinged for a lot of big losses in the minds of a lot of Eagles fans...Eli was perennially a bottom 10 QB his whole career in peoples minds cause of how much we’ve owned them his whole career. It’s just rivalry stuff.

I actually really like what @RandyMossIsBoss did. He took NFL(Rating)/ESPN(QBR)/PFF/PPR (ANY/A)/FO (DVOA) and equal weighted them. So it was literally every major football analytics site. And PFF is eyetest, which helps. I dont have a link to it. But its an unbiased and seemed accurate. 

 

PS: I think its funny that your argument is Wentz can elevate talent, but he has done worse because he doesnt have any talent around him. 

PPS: I think the Cowboys talent is overrated a bit. The WRs led the NFL in drops, 1 all pro (Martin) and 2 non-alternate probowlers (Martin/Smith) really the last few years.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Matts4313

[Daimonas]

ah yes the post draft offseason 4 month long dak vs wentz arguments begin.

[Kiltman]

43 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

PS: I think its funny that your argument is Wentz can elevate talent, but he has done worse because he doesnt have any talent around him. 

PPS: I think the Cowboys talent is overrated a bit. The WRs led the NFL in drops, 1 all pro (Martin) and 2 non-alternate probowlers (Martin/Smith) really the last few years.

I specifically said rosterable talent for that reason. He’s had fairly bad WRs to deal with most of his career. He had 2017 with a solid group and look how good the offense ran. None of them were great wideouts, but they could actually perform a solid job. All QBs need talent around them. Some more than others.

A long time ago I contextualized this with the hypothetical of putting both Dak and Carson on a cloned team. Each other player on offense is the exact same. They are all the exact average for talent at their positions. In that situation Carson would be better than Dak. That’s my stance.

 

I think they are overrated too. Had a great draft on paper but so many analysts are acting like they had a stacked roster and had zero holes. Their OL is aging in the worst way, they got barda at TE. Defense isn’t very good, especially that secondary. They added old guys to the DL and pretended it was fixed. They seemingly fixed the Amari hot/cold issue cause you can just go to Ceedee now. Like they are a solid team but this offseason didn’t make them a SB favorite like some of them are saying. I can do this for the Eagles too

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

I specifically said rosterable talent for that reason. He’s had fairly bad WRs to deal with most of his career. He had 2017 with a solid group and look how good the offense ran. None of them were great wideouts, but they could actually perform a solid job. All QBs need talent around them. Some more than others.

A long time ago I contextualized this with the hypothetical of putting both Dak and Carson on a cloned team. Each other player on offense is the exact same. They are all the exact average for talent at their positions. In that situation Carson would be better than Dak. That’s my stance.

 

I think they are overrated too. Had a great draft on paper but so many analysts are acting like they had a stacked roster and had zero holes. Their OL is aging in the worst way, they got barda at TE. Defense isn’t very good, especially that secondary. They added old guys to the DL and pretended it was fixed. They seemingly fixed the Amari hot/cold issue cause you can just go to Ceedee now. Like they are a solid team but this offseason didn’t make them a SB favorite like some of them are saying. I can do this for the Eagles too

Its not just analyst. I had a Cowboy fan tell me that our offense had 6 all pros and a probowler at every spot besides LG. I was like "Dude, you must smoke the good stuff"

I think the OL will be good not great. Question marks at C and LG, T Smith has had some injuries. I hope the WRs will be great, but the amount of drops sucked bad. Zeke even struggled last year at times. I am hoping he comes to camp in shape this year. Our QB is holding out.. Our defense has questions all over the place because there is like 5 new starters.

And we have almost all new coaches who havent even met the team yet.

 

And dudes in the Cowboys forum are like "Dalton could win the superbowl with this team"...... Its so dumb. 

[Jroc04]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

Cmon man, Wentz has played 5 minutes of post season football in 4 years- - Dont hit me with that ring comment. And the stats arent as close as you are making them. Dak obviously has more bulk everything. But he also has better efficiency in everything: comp %, ANY/A, Rating, Win %, INT%, TD% (if you include rushing).

Wentz literally doesnt have a statistical advantage in anything after 4 years.

Which reminds me. @Daimonas. Check your sig homie. 

						Passing															Rushing					Receiving
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Dak Prescott	2016	2019	60	64	40-24-0	1363	2071	65.8	15778	97	97.0	90	36	136	826	7.6	7.77	6.77	6.92	241	1221	21	5.1	42	0	0	0		0
2	Carson Wentz	2016	2019	45	56	32-24-0	1311	2055	63.8	14191	97	92.7	73	35	129	807	6.9	7.08	6.13	6.30	206	785	3	3.8	24	2	11	0	5.5	7

Ive learned more on the reddit serious threads than I have here. There is a lot of really good convos and smart people. Of course, there is like a million posters, so there is also a lot of silly memes and bickering.

Its a mix bag. But a lot of advanced analytics to be found. 

You can’t take away a SB season that the guy was 11-2 in, was the reason why we were the #1 seed and was still arguably the MVP after missing 3 games. Eagles don’t win the SB without Wentz. Period. 
 

What I’m saying is I don’t know how whatever discussion you were apart of could list Dak and think Carson is a non factor. He’s played less games but projects about the same career, statistically. It’s really splitting hairs. Hell, they have the same amount of passing TDs even after Dak’s monster year last year. Wentz still averages more yards. His numbers are comparable with top guys projected 8 more games. Looking at the QB stats over those years I don’t know how you can unequivocally say Dak is good and Carson isn’t. It doesn’t make sense. They are very close in most every category. 

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, Jroc04 said:

Looking at the QB stats over those years I don’t know how you can unequivocally say Dak is good and Carson isn’t. It doesn’t make sense.

I didnt say that. Some random titans fan did. I did up vote it tho.

[EAGLES3658]

1 hour ago, Matts4313 said:

I actually really like what @RandyMossIsBoss did. He took NFL(Rating)/ESPN(QBR)/PFF/PPR (ANY/A)/FO (DVOA) and equal weighted them. So it was literally every major football analytics site. And PFF is eyetest, which helps. I dont have a link to it. But its an unbiased and seemed accurate. 

 

PS: I think its funny that your argument is Wentz can elevate talent, but he has done worse because he doesnt have any talent around him. 

PPS: I think the Cowboys talent is overrated a bit. The WRs led the NFL in drops, 1 all pro (Martin) and 2 non-alternate probowlers (Martin/Smith) really the last few years.

Some would say that making a playoff push late in the year and making the playoffs with the practice squad offense is elevating players. 

[Matts4313]

16 minutes ago, EAGLES3658 said:

Some would say that making a playoff push late in the year and making the playoffs with the practice squad offense is elevating players. 

You guys played the worst teams in the NFL and a Cowboys team with a QB that had two broken hands and a sprained shoulder. Dak played awful. 3 gimpy WRs who had like 10 drops in that game alone. They played awful. And you won by what? A fieldgoal?

This might come across as salty. Im not really knocking the Eagles, I am knocking the teams you played. You should have won - - and you did.

[TwoUpTwoDown]

6 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said:

I’m shocked you didn’t follow through. Shocked. 

Same, I really thought I cared for a second there.

[HTTRDynasty]

2 minutes ago, TwoUpTwoDown said:

Same, I really thought I cared for a second there.

Can't hate.  That's probably the same attitude I'd take if I couldn't prove what I stupidly claimed.

[RBreezy]

3 hours ago, Matts4313 said:

 

						Passing															Rushing					Receiving
Rk	Player	From	To	AV	G	QBrec	Cmp	Att	Cmp%	Yds	TD	Rate	Lng	Int	Sk	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	NY/A	ANY/A	Att	Yds	TD	Y/A	Lng	Rec	Yds	TD	Y/R	Lng
1	Dak Prescott	2016	2019	60	64	40-24-0	1363	2071	65.8	15778	97	97.0	90	36	136	826	7.6	7.77	6.77	6.92	241	1221	21	5.1	42	0	0	0		0
2	Carson Wentz	2016	2019	45	56	32-24-0	1311	2055	63.8	14191	97	92.7	73	35	129	807	6.9	7.08	6.13	6.30	206	785	3	3.8	24	2	11	0	5.5

Ive learned more on the reddit serious threads than I have here. There is a lot of really good convos and smart people. Of course, there is like a million posters, so there is also a lot of silly memes and bickering.

Its a mix bag. But a lot of advanced analytics to be found. 

I like it to keep up with breaking news that I can’t get since I’m not on Twitter, but yeah way too many memes and bickering. I’m sure there’s some great analytical posts but most of it is just low quality ish posting lol

[Danger]

Same song and dance. I'll pass on this because it's been run into the ground.

[EaglesPeteC]

Dak sucks 

[TheRealMcCoy]

On 5/5/2020 at 8:52 AM, HTTRDynasty said:

On 5/5/2020 at 8:45 AM, EagleBlueDon said:

Who were the players? I think that matters more than salary. Kind of a silly argument you're attempting tbh without listing the players.

Listing players would get us nowhere.  Most of you will just go "hur, dur, Wentz" and think that is the end of it.  Obviously when 50% of your cap is on IR, you're losing a lot of the players you valued highly, so I don't think it's a silly argument at all.  Especially the impact it has on a rookie QB to try to compete with half the salary cap on IR.

Just waiting on @TwoUpTwoDown to be a man of his word.

I'll help them out.

Football Outsiders has a cool stat called Adjusted Games Lost.

Philly was "only" 21st (lower is better), while Washington was the 31st. 

Only worse team as far as AGL last year was Jets and they were by far the worst and Washington by far the 2nd worst. You guys would've been the worst for AGL most other years. I think they said the Jets last year was the worst they've found. 

Anyways... but we've had to deal with injuries a lot and @TwoUpTwoDown point about what Wentz had to deal with last year is still valid and we did basically win the Super Bowl being pretty banged up along the way.

You guys definitely have us beat as far as injuries the past 4 or 5 years, but we're among the worst for the last 2 or 3 for sure.

Edited May 7, 2020 by TheRealMcCoy