Matts4313 Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 9 minutes ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: It absolutely hurt Wentz(no excuses for him, but it is a fact it did). Please take all Wentz comments to the colts forum. Am I doing it right @Kiltman @Danger? For real though - in your post you talk about coordinators. I thought Howie was picking his coordinators? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 Just now, Matts4313 said: Please take all Wentz comments to the colts forum. Am I doing it right @Kiltman @Danger? For real though - in your post you talk about coordinators. I thought Howie was picking his coordinators? He picked them in 2016. After the SB Pederson promoted his guys which is when it became a disaster. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: I think Pederson is a really good football coach. I think he knows how to motivate players and get them to play hard. That said, he is horrendous at choosing his coordinators and position coaches. This leads to a team that plays really scrappy and can squeak out wins and clutch up, but a team that never will become a dominant force for a long period of time. It also means he is just not good at developing talent cause his positional coaches are bad. His play calling is average overall. He innovated a lot his first few years here, but the last two he fell into the same style of playcalling that was figured out. It absolutely hurt Wentz(no excuses for him, but it is a fact it did). Pederson had to go though. He wanted to promote bad coaches and not bring in new ideas. Why that is I don't know, but moving forward with him in Philly was not an option. I have faith he will coach somewhere else next year and be a solid HC for a while. He needs to let people help him pick his coaching staff first(like Howie basically did in 2016), but if he is put in a good situation he will succeed. I hear all that. But no head coach is perfect, and pretty much every HC in this league hires their friends and/or guys they feel comfortable with as assistants. We had to deal with that all the time with Gruden, who hired Greg F'ing Manusky over Wade Phillips, among other terrible defensive hires (including the literal worst DC in NFL history - Joe Barry). It's the sad reality of NFL nepotism/cronyism. How are you so confident it was the assistant coaches who were at fault for not developing talent? Have many of those players have gone on to find success elsewhere? I would be quicker to blame the guy making the picks (I mean, Reagor over Jefferson? Really? After not drafting AJ Brown, Metcalf, or McLaurin the year prior? Obviously just an example, but those whiffs add up. I just don't see any scenario where Nick Sirianni is an upgrade, especially with Howie still in charge, but I could obviously be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 2 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Please take all Wentz comments to the colts forum. Am I doing it right @Kiltman @Danger? For real though - in your post you talk about coordinators. I thought Howie was picking his coordinators? Yes, I don't want to keep reliving this pain over and over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, HTTRDynasty said: I hear all that. But no head coach is perfect, and pretty much every HC in this league hires their friends and/or guys they feel comfortable with as assistants. We had to deal with that all the time with Gruden, who hired Greg F'ing Manusky over Wade Phillips, among other terrible defensive hires (including the literal worst DC in NFL history - Joe Barry). It's the sad reality of NFL nepotism/cronyism. How are you so confident it was the assistant coaches who were at fault for not developing talent? Have many of those players have gone on to find success elsewhere? I would be quicker to blame the guy making the picks (I mean, Reagor over Jefferson? Really? After not drafting AJ Brown, Metcalf, or McLaurin the year prior? Obviously just an example, but those whiffs add up. I just don't see any scenario where Nick Sirianni is an upgrade, especially with Howie still in charge, but I could obviously be wrong. No head coach is perfect, but when you refuse to hire an OC for no real reason, give Groh the keys to the passing game, watch it fall apart, and then in the offseason say you want to PROMOTE him, you just don't have any credibility when it comes to hiring coaches(sorry for the awful sentence im lazy). The drafting hasn't been good the past three years. That is a fact. Howie has always been the guy who drafts pretty good but not great players, which is ok but it also isn't ideal. He has made some good picks, recently they have not been good at all. That said, it is obvious why guys weren't developing here. Watching our WRs tape from the past three years shows terrible coaching. They lack fundamentals. Watching Carson Wentz's tape shows the coaches did a horrible job with him. His mechanics looked like a high school QBs last year. We cut players/don't resign them and the consistently perform at a higher level in their next spot. No they aren't pro bowl players, but they are at least playing above replacement level in a lot of cases. Gym Shorts was a solid DC, but he only played one style and when his players couldn't complete their assignment(our DBs and LBs the past two years) he continued to leave them on an island and pray our front 4 could get enough pressure. This leads our young players to play terribly cause they simply aren't ready to fill those roles. It is impossible to know what ACTUALLY went wrong. To me, it seems like our coaching was the biggest issue, but we will see if that continues to be the case. The one thing I think Sirianni does though is he brings this hope of development. He has talked about putting players in spots where they can succeed, instead of just forcing them into your system. He brought in a lot of young coaches who have experience working with guys and making them better. Sirianni might not be the greatest HC, but he could be a breath of fresh air in terms of what we will be getting compared to the old regime which was so hard to watch. Edited June 13, 2021 by AZ_Eaglesfan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: I mean, you're referencing a website that had Doug Pederson ranked 5th last year, 4th in 2019, and 5th in 2018: https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/edge/article/goal-line-stand/nfls-best-coaches-2020 https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/edge/article/goal-line-stand/nfls-best-coaches-2019 https://www.nbcsportsedge.com/edge/article/goal-line-stand/nfls-best-coaches-2018 I was just using that list to show you that the NFCE coaches ain't separated by that much right now. It was just a random list though. I wasn't putting a lot of stock into it. And, of course Pederson is gonna be ranked highly coming off a SB.... don't know how he was rated that highly the other years though. He regressed since Reich and DeFilippo left. Period. 7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: You can't have it both ways. He didn't all of a sudden go from a top 5 coach three years running, to a net detriment to the team in one season. That's ridiculous. He wasn't though. 7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: So either Pederson was just a scapegoat when the higher-ups needed someone to blame, or the site you linked to is trash. It has to be one or the other. It doesn't and Pederson wanted to be fired. 7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: I personally don't think removing him was the right move for you guys at all long-term You can think what you want. You don't know this team like we do. 7 hours ago, HTTRDynasty said: Howie is the one who should have been sent packing (drafting Reagor over Jefferson should've sealed the deal), and maybe you'd finally start having some top tier drafts again. Howie like Doug was also at one time heralded as one of the best at his job once upon a time and I think most Eagles fans would agree he should've been fired, but he's super close to Lurie, so its gonna take a hell of a lot for that to happen. If Sirianni is cheeks and flames out in 2 years, then maybe that will be enough to get Roseman canned. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheRealMcCoy Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: No head coach is perfect, but when you refuse to hire an OC for no real reason, give Groh the keys to the passing game, watch it fall apart, and then in the offseason say you want to PROMOTE him, you just don't have any credibility when it comes to hiring coaches(sorry for the awful sentence im lazy). He wanted to make Press Taylor his offensive coordinator after this year... LMFAOOOO. That was so unserious and his way of quitting/asking to be let go. He didn't wanna be micromanaged anymore, but he didn't give much reason to think that he shouldn't be either. 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: The drafting hasn't been good the past three years. That is a fact. Howie has always been the guy who drafts pretty good but not great players, which is ok but it also isn't ideal. He has made some good picks, recently they have not been good at all. I like this years class and last years doesn't look good, but 1 year is too soon to judge a draft class. My hopes aren't high, but yeah. I actually think Roseman did a pretty good job in 2018, especially considering what he had to work with tbh. We had the 32nd pick and he turned it into Goedert and Miles Sanders (Ravens pick the next year). The only other picks we had that year were two 4ths, a 6th, and a 7th. He turned that into Sweat (developed into a good DE... nice gamble on day 3), Maddox (Disappointing but 35 games played and 23 starts and been played at every secondary spot and on his 3rd DB coach in 4 years now), Pryor (worst pick but its a 6th and he's stuck on the roster for 2 years and did some okay things as a rookie), and then Mailata in the 7th who could be a franchise LT. But, the other years... yeah. I swear 2017 is still the most disappointing to me with how many picks we had. 1 hour ago, AZ_Eaglesfan said: That said, it is obvious why guys weren't developing here. Watching our WRs tape from the past three years shows terrible coaching. They lack fundamentals. Watching Carson Wentz's tape shows the coaches did a horrible job with him. His mechanics looked like a high school QBs last year. We cut players/don't resign them and the consistently perform at a higher level in their next spot. No they aren't pro bowl players, but they are at least playing above replacement level in a lot of cases. Gym Shorts was a solid DC, but he only played one style and when his players couldn't complete their assignment(our DBs and LBs the past two years) he continued to leave them on an island and pray our front 4 could get enough pressure. This leads our young players to play terribly cause they simply aren't ready to fill those roles. It is impossible to know what ACTUALLY went wrong. To me, it seems like our coaching was the biggest issue, but we will see if that continues to be the case. The one thing I think Sirianni does though is he brings this hope of development. He has talked about putting players in spots where they can succeed, instead of just forcing them into your system. He brought in a lot of young coaches who have experience working with guys and making them better. Sirianni might not be the greatest HC, but he could be a breath of fresh air in terms of what we will be getting compared to the old regime which was so hard to watch. Well said. @HTTRDynastydoesn't know anything about the Eagles if he doesn't know how bad we were at development besides on the OL with Stoutland who is really one of the best position coaches in the league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HTTRDynasty Posted June 13, 2021 Share Posted June 13, 2021 @AZ_Eaglesfan & @TheRealMcCoy You guys obviously know your team much better than I do. I'm coming at this from an outsider's perspective and speaking from a general sense, so obviously I'm missing some details. It's likely Pederson's passive aggressive actions this past season left a bad taste in the FO's mouths, so he wouldn't have worked out regardless of how much of last season's failures were actually his fault. If that's the case, it was probably the right move to let him go. But I do think fans are quick to justify the actions of their team, right or wrong. And we tend to focus much more on the negatives than the positives of whatever person will no longer be a part of the organization. That's in addition to the fact that we ALL criticize our HCs multiple times over the course of any given season, so those criticisms stick in our mind. It'll be interesting to see how some of these different situations play out (Wentz in Indy, Sirianni's tenure, the Howie situation). I just wouldn't be surprised if Philly fans begin missing Pederson at some point in the near future, or at least really come to appreciate what they had. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ_Eaglesfan Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 2 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said: He wanted to make Press Taylor his offensive coordinator after this year... LMFAOOOO. That was so unserious and his way of quitting/asking to be let go. He didn't wanna be micromanaged anymore, but he didn't give much reason to think that he shouldn't be either. I like this years class and last years doesn't look good, but 1 year is too soon to judge a draft class. My hopes aren't high, but yeah. I actually think Roseman did a pretty good job in 2018, especially considering what he had to work with tbh. We had the 32nd pick and he turned it into Goedert and Miles Sanders (Ravens pick the next year). The only other picks we had that year were two 4ths, a 6th, and a 7th. He turned that into Sweat (developed into a good DE... nice gamble on day 3), Maddox (Disappointing but 35 games played and 23 starts and been played at every secondary spot and on his 3rd DB coach in 4 years now), Pryor (worst pick but its a 6th and he's stuck on the roster for 2 years and did some okay things as a rookie), and then Mailata in the 7th who could be a franchise LT. But, the other years... yeah. I swear 2017 is still the most disappointing to me with how many picks we had. Well said. @HTTRDynastydoesn't know anything about the Eagles if he doesn't know how bad we were at development besides on the OL with Stoutland who is really one of the best position coaches in the league. Ya idk why I said Groh... it was Taylor. The whole organization has been kinda messed up since we won the SB... here's to a brighter future. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said: He wanted to make Press Taylor his offensive coordinator after this year... LMFAOOOO. That was so unserious and his way of quitting/asking to be let go. He didn't wanna be micromanaged anymore, but he didn't give much reason to think that he shouldn't be either. That my friend, is what we call incompetence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danger Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 5 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said: Well said. @HTTRDynastydoesn't know anything about the Eagles if he doesn't know how bad we were at development besides on the OL with Stoutland who is really one of the best position coaches in the league. And Stoutland was here before from the Chip Kelly days. Doug was not a good coach, and he didn't have the sway or confidence to actually convince any good coaches to come here and work with him. Beta male of a coach if I've ever seen one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nabbs4u Posted June 14, 2021 Share Posted June 14, 2021 Doug Pederson post SB reminded me of Coach Klein from the movie Waterboy (without his playbook). Frank Reich apparently being said playbook. Easiest explanation for his atrocious game planning and in game play calling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 Injuries suck Thats how bad injuries effected each team.... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-data-study-war-adjusted-injuries-lost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matts4313 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 PFF just listed [unnamed QB] as the worst contract for both the Eagles and Colts. That makes me laugh. https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-best-worst-nfl-contracts-every-afc-team-stefon-diggs-carson-wentz-patrick-mahomes-2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MKnight82 Posted June 15, 2021 Share Posted June 15, 2021 17 hours ago, Matts4313 said: Injuries suck Thats how bad injuries effected each team.... https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-pff-data-study-war-adjusted-injuries-lost Does this list include players who missed due to Covid protocols? Just curious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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