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🦅🤠 NFC East 🤷‍♂️🆘: A winner with no name


Who wins the East in 2019?  

66 members have voted

  1. 1. Who will be the fairest of them all in 2019?

    • Philadelphia Eagles
    • Dallas Cowboys
    • New York Giants
    • Football Team


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Just now, Jeezla said:

I think Eagles and Giants will both regret passing on Fields for a WR, but both wr's will do good.

I do believe the same. Lurie forcing the team´s hand on building around a QB they didn´t believe in the first place will be a big mistake. 

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1 minute ago, HTTRDynasty said:

How so?  It makes your opinion the outlier.

Because at the end of the day, you have an elevated opinion of your team given the circumstances of how they made the playoffs and against whom. Granted you can make the case that your team has gotten better in the offseason, but everyone can say the same.

We took a massive step backwards from Wentz to Hurts, but still that´s the same team your team had a hard time beating.

And again, the Redskins have gotten better but you were just appealing to the fact that some QBs can get hot in the playoffs for a 38/39 player that hasn´t even made it once. 

That´s why saying ¨Eagles fans want to pull our teams down to their talent level¨. Well, it´s not that much of a difference.

And as a Redskins fans  you shouldn´t bank on continued success for your team just as I was skeptical of the Eagles after the Super Bowl. 

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5 minutes ago, Broadway Joe said:

Because at the end of the day, you have an elevated opinion of your team given the circumstances of how they made the playoffs and against whom. Granted you can make the case that your team has gotten better in the offseason, but everyone can say the same.

We took a massive step backwards from Wentz to Hurts, but still that´s the same team your team had a hard time beating.

And again, the Redskins have gotten better but you were just appealing to the fact that some QBs can get hot in the playoffs for a 38/39 player that hasn´t even made it once. 

That´s why saying ¨Eagles fans want to pull our teams down to their talent level¨. Well, it´s not that much of a difference.

And as a Redskins fans  you shouldn´t bank on continued success for your team just as I was skeptical of the Eagles after the Super Bowl. 

As I've said in this thread before, I'm comparing the talent levels when I rank the teams in this division... not last year's results.  Looking ahead to the 2021 season, I don't put any weight into WFT making the playoffs last year.  None.

When I look at the rosters, I just think Washington's roster is superior by a good amount over Philly's.  Even your team's beat writer agrees that there is little he could find to nitpick regarding this roster.  I definitely cannot say the same for Philly, and I doubt he will either.

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Washington's OL gonna play like crap this year. Have a feeling Scherff goes down early, then the whole OL just devolves into turnstiles.

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2 hours ago, Broadway Joe said:

But this is exactly what I mean, apparently you believe your team is way ahead of the Eagles and you are a Redskins fan.

To be fair, I think the majority of people out there think that the Eagles are a bottom tier team and the Skins have a chance to be mediocre. That could be a ~5 win difference, which is huge. 

Edited by Matts4313
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Quote

 

Simms spoke on the exclusion of Hurts on his “Unfiltered” podcast during the list’s rolling release. He said:

I’m didn’t do it to create any headlines, but the way I look at it, he’s not as good as any of the 40 guys I’ve got here. Again, I understand his running — it’s good. Throwing, I still have major concerns about. And I can show you tons of throws on film and just go ‘Listen, this is not acceptable in the NFL, some of these throws.’ So there’s a lot more I’ve gotta see from that aspect.

I look at Jalen Hurts as kinda still a project, and a starting quarterback a little bit — I don’t mean this to be disrespectful — by default, because of the weird situation in Philadelphia. Not necessarily that he like, grabbed it by its horns and just blew everybody away...”Oh my gosh! Wow! He’s so good, we gotta keep him on the field!” No...I’ve still got way too many questions before I can throw him on here yet.

Simms isn’t wrong. There are plenty of throws that Hurts made last year that were unacceptable, in terms of the reads he made, his pocket management, or his accuracy. Hurts has yet to perform as an NFL-caliber thrower, which was always the concern with Hurts coming out. Having him ranked below such rookies as Justin Fields and Trey Lance, who had clearly better profiles coming out of college, is intuitive.

Of course, Hurts was no better or worse as a thrower than Carson Wentz was, by both the eye test and most catch-all metrics of quarterback play. Wentz is 18th on this list, and was largely forgiven for his poor play last season. In that he’s had better play in the pros historically, this again makes sense — though Wentz is surprisingly high on the list.

However, quarterback play isn’t just throwing. Discounting Hurts’ running ability as good and discussing it no further maybe lets you get him below players like Case Keenum, Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater, and even Andy Dalton — because they’re all better throwers — despite the reality that Hurts is more likely to help an offense than any of those four players because of his running ability. This isn’t a passer ranking, as I understand it — it’s a quarterback ranking. While I remain, like Simms, unconvinced that Hurts is a starting-caliber quarterback in the NFL, I think he clearly brings more when asked to start than other quarterbacks ranked above him

The writing below the quote is from Solak who I think has become increasingly negative about the Eagles, but he's right about the running ability not being accounted for.

Like how are Lamar and especially Kyler (#17 on PFF's list) being ranked so highly unless you're accounting for the running ability? Cause both have shown inconsistencies as passers. Kyler improved from his rookie year though and he should crack the top 20 for sure, but #7 while Hurts isn't even top 40? Laughable.

I really don't understand why the rookie QBs as a whole don't get cut much of a break for having no rookie minicamp, no OTAs, and a shortened training camp?

Especially Hurts who was throwing to 2nd and 3rd team receivers for all of camp and most of the season until Wentz was benched. So, he wasn't really able to establish the best rapport with his guys. Also, besides those facts even our first string receivers last year weren't good or healthy last year. Our o-line went through a ton of different combinations (Wentz experienced more of this obviously), but Hurts still only had 2 weeks in a row where the starters were the same on the OL and that was weeks 15 to 16 when we faced the Cardinals and then Cowboys, but I digress. We didn't have are stalwarts on the right side in Brooks and Johnson. We had a bunch of first year starters or bad back-ups like Pryor that saw time.

Not to mention Doug Pederson wasn't exactly doing either starting QB many favors although he did adjust the offense for Hurts more than Wentz to play to his strengths as a runner. Still the guy was unimaginative and underwhelming with his play calling overall. 

Speaking of coaches. I don't think its brought up enough how many different systems/offenses that Hurts has had to learn. Here is just a quick run down:

  1. ) 2016 - Hurts true freshman year at Bama he had to learn under Kiffin & Sark to an extent for the championship game.
  2. ) 2017 - Then, Daboll takes over the offense and Hurts has to learn a new one, but he bolts for Buffalo after the year to eventually go on to coach Josh Allen as a rookie before turning down the opportunity to coach Hurts this offseason lol.
  3. ) 2018 - Kiffin comes back to enter the fray, so this was a return to the familiar for Hurts, but by this time he wasn't really playing at all as Tua was the starter, so it didn't really matter, but I figured I should detail every season.
  4. ) 2019 - Hurts transfers to Oklahoma where Lincoln Riley who had gotten good results out of Mayfield and Murray considering both went #1 overall and won the Heisman. Hurts unfortunately only had 1 season under him as a Senior before being drafted compared to Murray (2) and Mayfield (3), but he did have his best season by far and was 2nd in Heisman voting just edging out Fields in 3rd and way behind 1st in Burrow.
  5. ) 2020 - Hurts is selected in the 2nd round and has to learn Doug Pederson's offense with hardly any offseason like I talked about before.

So, that is 3 different offenses in 4 years of college and 4 different offenses in 5 years when you add in the Eagles as a rookie. Now, he will be going on to his 5th offense in 6 years...... that is A LOT. 

Bottom line: The guy only had the same offense in 2016 & 2018. In 2016 he was a true freshman thrust into a starting role and 2018 he was firmly on the bench behind Tua and just basically waiting till he was gonna transfer, so not sure how much good a familiar offense did that year.

I just don't see how you look at Hurts rookie season and drop him so far because of it. The guy had a ton going against him not just this past rookie season, but his whole college tenure as far as change. You would have to go back to his high school career where he played for his dad for any sort of stability in play calling which is pretty nuts. Hopefully for his and our sake... he does well enough in 2021 to where he can experience 2 years in a row under Sirianni.

If he can improve some accuracy wise and going through progressions with what should hopefully be a healthier/better o-line and receiving corp, then he has the work ethic and more importantly the mental make-up to make it in the league as a starter and in Philly which isn't something we could say about you know who. 

With all that said? Where would I rank Jalen Hurts in Simms' top 40 list?

Just based on how he played (taking context out of the equation) and the unknown with his improvements as a passer to year 2... I would put him around where he put Lock (one of the 2 or 3 worst QBs last year) and Tua at 33/34. 

So, I would probably put him #35 where Tyrod Taylor is, but he definitely should be somewhere on this list. It's ridiculous to leave him off in favor of back-ups and a 3rd round rookie QB (Kellen Mond) who was seen as a late day 2 to early day 3 projected player depending on who you talked to and someone that definitely needs to be developed. Like most of these guys aren't gonna even play unless the starters on their team get hurt. 

Edited by TheRealMcCoy
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As far as the other QBs in the NFC East. Dak definitely deserves to be top 10 at this point and I think its pretty disrespectful to put Murray over him. 

The Fitzpatrick rating and even Jones are debatable, but in a fair range. Fitz can be anywhere between the late teens to mid 20s and Jones the early 20s to late 20s IMO, but its just hilarious that Taysom Hill is ranked ahead of Jones and only 1 spot behind Fitz when he has hardly any track record as a QB in NO and wasn't a good QB prospect.

Simms gonna Simms though...

Edited by TheRealMcCoy
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40 minutes ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

The writing below the quote is from Solak who I think has become increasingly negative about the Eagles, but he's right about the running ability not being accounted for.

So, I just skipped around the podcast Simms did on his podcast to find something besides what Solak quoted from his podcast and when asked if he left off one of his 6 rookies he included (basically all of the notable ones except Mills who went the pick after Mond) the next guy up he said would probably come down to Minshew and Hurts.

He said he would lean Hurts over Minshew, because of in his words "the force of nature he is running the football", but then quickly followed that up by calling it a "little advantage" right after.... lol. 

FWIW these were the other names he mentioned besides Hurts and Minshew that he had outside the top 40:

Nick Foles

Mitchell Trubisky

Jacoby Brissett

and a brief mention of...... Joe Flacco lol

Edit: There was also a humorous part where one person asking a question or more making a statement said he would bet Simms a new/undropped airport cheeseburger that Hurts is top 20 entering next year.

I guess Simms said he dropped and ate a cheeseburger at LaGuardia. 🤢

Simms response to said bet/topic (Hurts) was this:

Quote

"I'm rooting for it. I love Jalen Hurts and how he handles himself... the way he has handled himself this whole off-season. I hope he plays well and proves me wrong. I really do. The human is easy to root for."

So, I'll cut him a bit of slack on the ranking. I still think he should've been somewhere on the list, but hopefully Jalen uses it as more fuel to the fire to prove everyone wrong.

Edited by TheRealMcCoy
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1 hour ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Umm…

Chris Simms Top 40 NFL quarterbacks rankings for 2020

1. Patrick Mahomes, Kansas City Chiefs

2. Russell Wilson, Seattle Seahawks

3. Aaron Rodgers, Green Bay Packers

4. Deshaun Watson, Houston Texans

5. Lamar Jackson, Baltimore Ravens

6. Carson Wentz, Philadelphia Eagles

7. Matt Ryan, Atlanta Falcons

8. Dak Prescott, Dallas Cowboys

9. Matt Stafford, Detroit Lions

10. Cam Newton, Free Agent

11. Ryan Tannehill, Tennessee Titans

12. Kyler Murray, Arizona Cardinals

13. Kirk Cousins, Minnesota Vikings

14. Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers

15. Tom Brady, Tampa Bay Buccaneers

16. Drew Brees, New Orleans Saints

17. Philip Rivers, Indianapolis Colts

18. Josh Allen, Buffalo Bills

19. Derek Carr, Las Vegas Raiders

20. Jimmy Garoppolo, San Francisco 49ers

21. Baker Mayfield, Cleveland Browns

22. Daniel Jones, New York Giants

23. Sam Darnold, New York Jets

24. Jared Goff, Los Angeles Rams

25. Drew Lock, Denver Broncos

26. Joe Burrow, Cincinnati Bengals

27. Andy Dalton, Dallas Cowboys

28. Ryan Fitzpatrick, Miami Dolphins

29. Teddy Bridgewater, Carolina Panthers

30. Gardner Minshew, Jacksonville Jaguars

31. Nick Foles, Chicago Bears

32. Case Keenum, Cleveland Browns

33. Jameis Winston, New Orleans Saints

34. Tyrod Taylor, Los Angeles Chargers

35. Jarrett Stidham, New England Patriots

36. Taysom Hill, New Orleans Saints

37. Justin Herbert, Los Angeles Chargers

38. Mitchell Trubisky, Chicago Bears

39. Dwayne Haskins, Washington Redskins

40. Tua Tagovailoa, Miami Dolphins

https://sports.nbcsports.com/2020/07/07/top-40-nfl-quarterback-rankings-2020-chris-simms/

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His list last year is significantly worse than this year lol.

How the hell was Wentz 6th going into last year? Top half of the league I can understand, but 6th is near elite.

Cam.... top 10 as a free agent? lol... while Brady is 15th? I'm baffled.

How did Darnold move up from 22 to 19 this year after being a bottom 3 QB last year? Stupefied....

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