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πŸ¦…πŸ€  NFC East πŸ€·β€β™‚οΈπŸ†˜ | Celebrating the Cowboys' 28 Years of Sadness


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On 5/12/2022 at 12:00 PM, Kiltman said:

Just makes fiscal sense

Come strapped with your own nugs, eat the free bread or chips. If he didn’t have to probably get Shirley Temples or Chocolate Milk instead of water (which he’s probably grossed out by) he’d be eating for like nothing.

wallet-chicken-mcnuggets-yospos-all-the-
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Howell was born in 2000. Gen Z. He's loading up a fanny pack with nugs and tendies. A hilarious thought.

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1 hour ago, ACO said:

I've see elite play stop being elite when circumstances change. I never said he wasn't. I said in the NFC East he is not WR1 for me because I need to see how he plays with Hurts and company. I have seen CeeDee and Terry in their systems. I saw Devonta last season. AJ is a damn good WR but he still aint WR1 to me. Terry is.

Understandable. I'd be pretty shocked if he wasn't the same AJ Brown you know to be a damn good WR.

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  • 2 weeks later...

https://www.pff.com/news/nfl-wide-receiver-rankings-and-tiers-2022

Finally some respeck

DeVonta too low though. He's definitely better than some guys above him. The little tiers these pff rankings feature make it feel like the rankings aren't composite overall big boards. It's more like where you rank within your tier that matters. πŸ€”Β 

Edited by EagleBlueDon
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On 6/24/2021 at 3:22 PM, TheRealMcCoy said:
Quote

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Simms spoke on the exclusion of Hurts on his β€œUnfiltered” podcastΒ during the list’s rolling release. He said:

I’m didn’t do it to create any headlines, but the way I look at it, he’s not as good as any of the 40 guys I’ve got here. Again, I understand his running β€” it’s good. Throwing, I still have major concerns about. And I can show you tons of throws on film and just go β€˜Listen, this is not acceptable in the NFL, some of these throws.’ So there’s a lot more I’ve gotta see from that aspect.

I look at Jalen Hurts as kinda still a project, and a starting quarterback a little bit β€” I don’t mean this to be disrespectful β€” by default, because of the weird situation in Philadelphia. Not necessarily that he like, grabbed it by its horns and just blew everybody away...”Oh my gosh! Wow! He’s so good, we gotta keep him on the field!” No...I’ve still gotΒ wayΒ too many questions before I can throw him on here yet.

Simms isn’t wrong. There are plenty of throws that Hurts made last year that were unacceptable, in terms of the reads he made, his pocket management, or his accuracy. Hurts has yet to perform as an NFL-caliber thrower, which was always the concern with Hurts coming out. Having him ranked below such rookies as Justin Fields and Trey Lance, who had clearly better profiles coming out of college, is intuitive.

Of course, Hurts was no better or worse as a thrower than Carson Wentz was, by both the eye test and most catch-all metrics of quarterback play. Wentz is 18th on this list, and was largely forgiven for his poor play last season. In that he’s had better play in the pros historically, this again makes sense β€” though Wentz is surprisingly high on the list.

However, quarterback play isn’t just throwing. Discounting Hurts’ running ability as good and discussing it no further maybe lets you get him below players like Case Keenum, Tyrod Taylor, Teddy Bridgewater, and even Andy Dalton β€” because they’re all better throwers β€” despite the reality that Hurts is more likely to help an offense than any of those four playersΒ becauseΒ of his running ability. This isn’t a passer ranking, as I understand it β€” it’s a quarterback ranking. While I remain, like Simms, unconvinced that Hurts is a starting-caliber quarterback in the NFL, I think he clearly brings more when asked to start than other quarterbacks ranked above him

The writing below the quote is from Solak who I think has become increasingly negative about the Eagles, but he's right about the running ability not being accounted for.

Like how are Lamar and especially Kyler (#17 on PFF's list)Β being ranked so highly unless you're accounting for the running ability? Cause both have shown inconsistencies as passers. Kyler improved from his rookie year though and he should crack the top 20 for sure, but #7 while Hurts isn't even top 40? Laughable.

I really don't understand why the rookie QBs as a whole don't get cut much of a break for having no rookie minicamp, no OTAs, and a shortened training camp?

Especially Hurts who was throwing to 2nd and 3rd team receivers for all of camp and most of the season until Wentz was benched. So, he wasn't really able to establish the best rapport with his guys. Also, besides those facts even our first string receivers last year weren't good or healthy last year.Β Our o-line went through a ton of different combinations (Wentz experienced more of this obviously), but Hurts still only had 2 weeks in a row where the starters were the same on the OL and that was weeks 15 to 16 when we faced the Cardinals and then Cowboys, but I digress. We didn't have are stalwarts on the right side in Brooks and Johnson. We had a bunch of first year starters or bad back-ups like Pryor that saw time.

Not to mention Doug Pederson wasn't exactly doing either starting QB many favors although he did adjust the offense for Hurts more than Wentz to play to his strengths as a runner. Still the guy was unimaginative and underwhelming with his play calling overall.Β 

Speaking of coaches. I don't think its brought up enough how many different systems/offenses that Hurts has had to learn. Here is just a quick run down:

  1. ) 2016Β - Hurts true freshman year at Bama he had to learn under Kiffin & Sark to an extent for theΒ championship game.
  2. ) 2017 - Then, Daboll takes over the offense and Hurts has to learn a new one, but he bolts for Buffalo after the year to eventually go on to coach Josh Allen as a rookie before turning down the opportunity to coach Hurts this offseason lol.
  3. ) 2018 - Kiffin comes back to enter the fray, so this was a return to the familiar for Hurts, but by this time he wasn't really playing at all as Tua was the starter, so it didn't really matter, but I figured I should detail every season.
  4. ) 2019 - Hurts transfers to Oklahoma where Lincoln Riley who had gotten good results out of Mayfield and Murray considering both went #1 overall and won the Heisman. Hurts unfortunately only had 1 season under him as a Senior before being drafted compared to Murray (2) and Mayfield (3), but he did have his best season by far and was 2nd in Heisman voting just edging out Fields in 3rd and way behind 1st in Burrow.
  5. ) 2020 - Hurts is selected in the 2nd round and has to learn Doug Pederson's offense with hardly any offseason like I talked about before.

So, that is 3 different offenses in 4 years of college and 4 different offenses in 5 years when you add in the Eagles as a rookie. Now, he will be going on to his 5th offense in 6 years...... that is A LOT.Β 

Bottom line: The guy only had the same offense in 2016 & 2018. In 2016 he was a true freshman thrust into a starting role and 2018 he was firmly on the bench behind Tua and just basically waiting till he was gonna transfer, so not sure how much good a familiar offense did that year.

I just don't see how you look at Hurts rookie season and drop him so far because of it. The guy had a ton going against him not just this past rookie season, but his whole college tenure as far as change. You would have to go back to his high school career where he played for his dad for any sort of stability in play calling which is pretty nuts. Hopefully for his and our sake... he does well enough in 2021 to where he can experience 2 years in a row under Sirianni.

If he can improve some accuracy wise and going through progressions with what should hopefully be a healthier/better o-line and receiving corp, then heΒ has the work ethic and more importantly the mental make-up to make it in the league as a starter and in Philly which isn't something we could say about you know who.Β 

With all that said? Where would I rank Jalen Hurts in Simms' top 40 list?

Just based on how he played (taking context out of the equation) and the unknown with his improvements as a passer to year 2... I would put him around where he put Lock (one of the 2 or 3 worst QBs last year) and Tua at 33/34.Β 

So, I would probably put him #35 where Tyrod Taylor is, but he definitely should be somewhere on this list. It's ridiculous to leave him off in favor of back-ups and a 3rd round rookie QB (Kellen Mond) who was seen as a late day 2 to early day 3 projected player depending on who you talked to and someone that definitely needs to be developed. Like most of these guys aren't gonna even play unless the starters on their team get hurt.Β 

This was my post on Chris Simms not putting Hurts in his top 40 (!!!!) QBs last offseason...

This year he still ranked Jalen behind all the rookie QBs (sans Trey Lance) even though the none of these guys in this group looked better than Hurts last year. Putting them over Hurts is projecting and he said about Hurts in his video explaining his placement that he has to wait and see with him, so why wouldn't it be the same with the rookies last year that were bad on tape? Davis Mills was better on film than all those guys and he's ranked 35th. Lance looks pretty eh in his limited time and he's over Mills as well at 31st. I don't have a problem saying some of these guys have higher upside than Hurts and Mills, but that's not what his list is supposed to be doing. According to him he's just evaluating what they've shown like at least be consistent.

Also, Jones over Hurts? The guy who has started for 3 years already and still looks much the same?

I guess we'll see this year, but I hope Hurts takes a jump and makes this ranking look bad just like he made Simms not putting him in the top 40 look stupid last year:

Here is last years for reference.

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Baker at 13 is all I need to know. He’s the 13th ranked QB and no one wants him? Ok, bro. Mac Jones is already better than Baker and Mac is ranked 30. lol List is garbage. But I guess that’s why they do these lists. Create controversy.Β 

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4 hours ago, Danger said:

Chris Simms

Doesn't he only have a job because of his Dad?

Eh, definitely helps. But he’s better at this than his dad was and a lot of other ex-players. He kinda worked his way up to NBC too. Β 

To have Jalen so low is silly, but I’m not gonna totally discount him for it.

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39 minutes ago, Kiltman said:

Eh, definitely helps. But he’s better at this than his dad was and a lot of other ex-players. He kinda worked his way up to NBC too. Β 

To have Jalen so low is silly, but I’m not gonna totally discount him for it.

Yeah, I mean just look at his 2018 QB rankings going into that draft. He was very different than the consensus and turned out to be pretty spot on.

He had it as 1.) Lamar Jackson 2.) Josh Allen 3.) Baker Mayfield 4.) Sam Darnold 5.) Josh Rosen

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18 hours ago, TheRealMcCoy said:

Yeah, I mean just look at his 2018 QB rankings going into that draft. He was very different than the consensus and turned out to be pretty spot on.

He had it as 1.) Lamar Jackson 2.) Josh Allen 3.) Baker Mayfield 4.) Sam Darnold 5.) Josh Rosen

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Yeah, he’s been on the better side of his tier of analyst when it comes to the draft. Some notable misses for sure, but that was his most notable one aside from being super high on Mahomes coming out.

Think he also had Herbert as his #2 over Tua and Love in 2020. One of the few people calling Lawrence a prospect with flaws that would need time, also was a lot lower on Trey Lance…which reports outta the Niners say he’s looking real bad.Β Has a good track record with other positions too.

He’s definitely flawed and missed, has a type for sure which Jalen doesn’t fit, but he puts himself out there and been right big a lot. Has been the first to own up to things when proven wrong too.

There are just a long list of analysts and NFL personalities I’d call out before him. You can see he does the work and has a good hit percentage with it.Β 
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I like Hurts getting some shade, not that he needs it, but it’ll push him.Β 

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5 hours ago, Kiltman said:

I like Hurts getting some shade, not that he needs it, but it’ll push him.Β 

I doubt Jalen gives two πŸ’©'s what a former scrub NFL QB who couldn't make it like Chris Simms thinks of him. If this was a HOF'r, some Legit FQB who is now a so called analyst maybe. ButΒ  Chris who in 5 NFL seasons couldn't even produce more then Hurt's 2021 season alone, yea Kick Rocks!

Edited by Nabbs4u
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1 hour ago, Nabbs4u said:

I doubt Jalen gives two πŸ’©'s what a former scrub NFL QB who couldn't make it like Chris Simms thinks of him. If this was a HOF'r, some Legit FQB who is now a so called analyst maybe. ButΒ  Chris who in 5 NFL seasons couldn't even produce more then Hurt's 2021 season alone, yea Kick Rocks!

He works for NBC, it’s not like he’s screaming off in the ether.

Hurts doesn’t really need motivation but it makes it sweeter when he proves them wrong.

I know it’s not weird but we can’t go after any National person who isn’t sold on Hurts while also as a fanbase being unsure too.

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