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Is Mike Thomas A 'Tier 1' Wide Receiver?


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Is Can't Guard Mike A Tier 1 Wide Receiver?  

92 members have voted

  1. 1. Is Can't Guard Mike A Tier 1 Wide Receiver?

    • Yes, Definitely!
      42
    • Yes
      24
    • No, But Close
      14
    • No
      9
    • No Way In Hell!
      3

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  • Poll closed on 02/02/2019 at 05:00 AM

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26 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

It doesn't make sense because it doesn't fit your agenda. MT has gone deep and made plays plenty of times, he's good at it. His biggest strengths are his route running, catch radius, and hands. Those are best utilized between 5-20 yards, would you disagree? Why not put a guy in his best spots? Just because the Saints don't run MT vertical 12 times a game, doesn't mean he has the inability to do so.

his adot is 7.8, hes bot going deep "plenty", which would need to be defined anyway. math is against you here, keep on lying to yourself though, no one else is buying it but you do you. 

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3 minutes ago, GSUeagles14 said:

his adot is 7.8, hes bot going deep "plenty", which would need to be defined anyway. math is against you here, keep on lying to yourself though, no one else is buying it but you do you. 

Does Brees being old not impact that.

Give MT Mahomes and hes gonna get some deep balls

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2 minutes ago, Chiefer said:

Does Brees being old not impact that.

Give MT Mahomes and hes gonna get some deep balls

maybe. but hes not even really running them consistently. smith and ginn are running them at a way higher rate.

 

regardless if he could be elite at it (we dont really know), hes not doing it. so why would you put him above  or at the same level,  of the elite guys who do it all? how os he better than keenan allen or adam thielen?

 

 

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Thomas is not a deep threat because Brees' arm is only worth about 40 yards on a good day.

Why are we talking about what Thomas doesn't do in comparison to some other players, instead of talking about what those other players aren't doing in comparison to Thomas? Like say 85% catch rate, or leading the league in red zone receptions, or leading the league in contested catch rate?

I don't much care what "tier" you put him in and this discussion is stupid and arbitrary, I just think it's funny we're looking at a guy who had freaking 125 catches this season and some of you talking about how lacking he supposedly is. It's completely ridiculous.

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1 hour ago, JustAnotherFan said:

Read back what I said.

In games where the Texans running backs have not produced (both as a runner &/or as a receiver), Nuk has still produced.

Meanwhile, Thomas has had Ingram/Kamara.

Ingram/Kamara have had off weeks as well. Michael Thomas has also had some good games when this has happened.

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And I've never seen a defense have to worry about a BOB and Watson led offense either.

Again, this is cherry picking. 

Payton/Brees>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Anything Houston has had. No matter how slice it.
Brees' pinpoint accuracy>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>a rookie QB and one coming off of an ACL. No matter how you slice it.

No it is not.

Watson has had 2 seasons in which he has finished with a 100 plus QB Rating. Brees is undoubtedly a better QB, but Watson has been very good/great since coming into the league passing the ball. This doesn't account that defenses have to account for his legs whether you want to admit it or not (No matter how many ">" you use).

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I made the statement that Nuk has produced no matter who was throwing him the ball. Your counter to that was cherry picking 1 single with Osweiler. MY counter to that was showing that he has indeed produced regardless of who is under center and that you cannot just use one season while ignoring the rest. Which is essentially what you were doing.

And this is cherry picking to ignore one season with a bad QB if you are going to say "Nuk has produce no matter who was throwing him the ball" as he didn't produce well during that season.

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Maybe he could. Maybe he couldn't. We don't know. So until we get to that point, all we can do is go on what we DO KNOW.

And WR's like AB have to deal with OC's such as Haley and Arians who are no where near Payton's level as far as play-calling. 

We know Hopkins has struggled at times with bad QB play and looked good at times with bad QB play. Yeah those poor Steelers offenses that consistently churn out 1,000 yard WR's. Give me a break.

 

Most importantly, you have yet to provide any factual argument that D-Coordinators scheme more for Hopkins than Thomas.

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Like for all of Julio Jones greatness, for one example (and I'm using him for an example because I know him better than other people in this discussion) he's been known to drop passes and struggle with inconsistency at times. His contested catch rate this season was 42% (!) and his overall catch rate was 66.5%.

That's a significant inefficiency as compared to Mike Thomas, who led the league in each of those categories at 74% and 85% respectively.

And that's despite him having Ridley, Sanu and Hooper to draw attention away from him at times (in theory). The Saints don't have anything like that. We have Watson, Kirkwood and Smith, who combined had barely as many catches (76) as the Falcons starting TE (71).

But nobody's sitting here saying Julio isn't a #1 WR because he has flaws in his game relative to other players.

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1 hour ago, SmittyBacall said:

I regretted engaging you the first time. Now I'm regretting it even more the second time. 

Agree to disagree.

Why? Because I make valid points that dismiss your generic comments like he “doesn’t have wheels”. 

Youve done nothing to show that MT isn’t a top tier WR except say “we’ll he can’t  go deep”. 

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1 hour ago, GSUeagles14 said:

his adot is 7.8, hes bot going deep "plenty", which would need to be defined anyway. math is against you here, keep on lying to yourself though, no one else is buying it but you do you. 

And you continue to ignore that Drew Brees deep ball fell off a cliff and the Saints offense doesn’t need MT to go deep. That’s what Trequan and Ginn have primarily done, correct? You can’t just pinpoint a guys one weakness, which isn’t even really a weakness, and ignore all the things he does at an elite level. Including the things he did better than any WR in the league this year.

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32 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

Like for all of Julio Jones greatness, for one example (and I'm using him for an example because I know him better than other people in this discussion) he's been known to drop passes and struggle with inconsistency at times. His contested catch rate this season was 42% (!) and his overall catch rate was 66.5%.

That's a significant inefficiency as compared to Mike Thomas, who led the league in each of those categories at 74% and 85% respectively.

And that's despite him having Ridley, Sanu and Hooper to draw attention away from him at times (in theory). The Saints don't have anything like that. We have Watson, Kirkwood and Smith, who combined had barely as many catches (76) as the Falcons starting TE (71).

But nobody's sitting here saying Julio isn't a #1 WR because he has flaws in his game relative to other players.

Thomas's average targeted air yards was 7.7. Julio's was 14.0. That's going to get you a drastically lower catch rate.

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8 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

Thomas's average targeted air yards was 7.7. Julio's was 14.0. That's going to get you a drastically lower catch rate.

That sounds like a "it's because of the system" argument, but the anti-Thomas people in this discussion aren't willing to acquiesce the same.

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21 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said:

And you continue to ignore that Drew Brees deep ball fell off a cliff and the Saints offense doesn’t need MT to go deep. That’s what Trequan and Ginn have primarily done, correct? You can’t just pinpoint a guys one weakness, which isn’t even really a weakness, and ignore all the things he does at an elite level. Including the things he did better than any WR in the league this year.

when being compared to actual elite wrs, yes you can. he doesnt do everything the elite guys do, which is why he isnt in that tier. as ive already said, its the same as allen and thielen.

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5 minutes ago, Destructo Spin said:

That sounds like a "it's because of the system" argument, but the anti-Thomas people in this discussion aren't willing to acquiesce the same.

If we're going to say that his lack of deep production is a result of the system, than we also need to be saying that his high catch rate and volume of catches is because of the system as well.

You want to have it both ways, praise him for his short production while excusing his deep production, and it doesn't work that way. Either both are due to Thomas's skill, or both are largely due to the offensive system.

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16 minutes ago, skywlker32 said:

I'm just curious. For the people arguing emphatically that Thomas is elite because he is great at short/intermediate routes, did you consider Welker elite? If not, why?

Absolutely, I loved Welker.

It's just really hard to argue against somebody that catches 120 passes in a season, IMO. I think the hitch is perceived talent vs. production but perception of "talent" is entirely subjective, so I'll just look at production.

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