Dan made the push for Bowles and Williams, not Gruden

[Ghostnote]

15 hours ago, Doc Draper said:

 

Did Williams even come in for an interview? The only one I heard was Todd Bowles. 

[Ghostnote]

It has to be the oddest thing to have the current DC in the same room with the interviewee for the SAME JOB?

WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS MINDSET AND ORGANIZATION??????????????????

Todd Bowles walks into the room and has a seat at the farthest seat at the end of the long table with Bruce Allen and Greg Manusky at the other. 

Bruce says, "Say Todd, please use the intercom button to talk ok?"

Todd: "Sure thing."

Bruce: "So we brought you in cause Mr. Snyder thought you would be a great DC for this franchise and oh, meet Greg Manusky, our current DC"

Todd: "Hey...Greg?"

Bruce: "So Gre..I mean I would like to know your thoughts on this franchise and how you can get the defense to be better? How would you run your 3-4?"

Todd: "So I would start by getting rid of you!" 

Bruce: "I'm sorry, couldn't hear you. Make sure you turn on the intercom so we can ensure that we understand what you are talking about."

Todd: 'Presses Intercom' - "I have another job offer that I am going to take." 

Dan Snyder bursts into the room: "Wait, Todd!" "Where is that nostalgia from playing during the glory years with Joe, huh? Do him proud and be our DC so I can fire Greg. I can't get rid of Greg without a replacment because Greg and Jay are close." *Pauses to catch his breath* "I just got a new yacht from rippin off all these fans and that Eagles game at FedEx really put me over the top. Thanks Philly! - "SUCKAS"!

Todd: "Dan, I am not sure about this, this is weird to have the current DC in the same room during an interview for the same job...?"

Bruce: "Don't forget to hit intercom"

Dan: "I'll make you the highest paid coordinator in the league!" 

Todd: "It's not about the money Mr. Snyder.."

Bruce: "Intercom"

Todd: *PRESSES INTERCOM* "Mr. Snyder, this is absolutely ridiculous. I am insulted. It's not about the money. I don't want to kill myself for you. I don't want to die here in this building. I don't want Bruce to be my Mr. Hadley, Captain of the Guards. 

Dan: "You want Bruce gone?" 

Todd: "I think your entire fan base wants him gone..." You know this thing about #FireBruceAllen (hashtag FireBruceAllen?)

Dan and Bruce look at each other...break out laughing....

Bruce: "You think we care about the fans?" If that were the case we would have kept D.J. We have the most loyal fanbase, they put up with me, a stupid owner, No offense Dan, and the lesser half of a brother head coach who is no better than Jim Zorn. This fanbase even got behind Jim Zorn! Bahahaha. Jim Zorn!!!! What a joke! Just take the money, do your time and be gone. Nevermind Mr. Snyder right now." Think of him as Lord Helmet in Spaceballs. He still plays with dolls and thinks this team is his puppet show." 

Todd: "Yeah, I don't think so." 

Bruce: "Dammit, INTERCOM!"

Todd: Pulls out cell phone and dials a number, puts it on speaker and tells the person to listen.

Dan Bruce and Greg all look at each other puzzled. 

Todd gets up, walks to the other end of the table, and props one hip up on the edge. 

Todd: "Ok, Bruce, I think you convinced me. I will take the job. 

Bruce: "Really? I didn't think you would? This was all for Mr. Snyder but that's..."

Todd: "You catch that Bruce, I'll see you in Tampa! That's right Bruce Arians, I will be YOUR defensive coordinator." Pulls out phone and hangs up. 

Bruce Allen: "WTF?"

Todd: "Thats right, you just got served...SUCKAS! Peace out you bunch of simpleton idiots. No wonder why the Redskins are the punchline of the NFL!"

Todd walks out of Redskins park, calls an Uber and heads to Dulles on a "Ticket To Paradise!"   

[naptownskinsfan]

58 minutes ago, mike23md said:

Did Williams even come in for an interview? The only one I heard was Todd Bowles. 

He did not. 

[e16bball]

14 hours ago, naptownskinsfan said:

With coaches who have had that power in this millenium, only Sean Payton has won a Super Bowl with it.  Joe Gibbs' offense struggled mightily, even after he added OC Al Saunders to the mix.  Andy Reid still hasn't won the big one, and I will always question his desire to call plays as a reason why.  Mike Holmgren was GM/HC and got fired from being GM and forced to give up playcalling by Seattle.  

So in the end, you are looking at Belichick and Payton, as well as Mike McCarthy, who have won a Super Bowl as the playcaller and head coach.  And only one of those- Belichick- has won with executive/GM authority.  

And that's not to say Landry, Walsh, Gibbs 1.0 and Holmgren with the Packers aren't great coaches or should be looked at, but coaching and the players, just like a lot of other things, was different.  

Doug Pederson just won the Super Bowl last year calling all the plays. Gary Kubiak won it in 2015-16 while (mostly) calling the plays. You mentioned Payton, McCarthy, and Belichick. And this year will be the same, as it will be either McVay or Belichick. Which will make 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls won by a coach calling the plays on one side of the ball. And by my count, 8 of the 12 playoff teams had the HC calling plays (NE, KC, HOU, IND, NO, LAR, CHI, and PHI), including all 4 of the conference finalists.

As I said, totally agree with you on the idea of not mixing the coaching role and personnel role. The HC/GM role never goes well, aside from Belichick, as you stated.

And I'm not opposed to the idea of a "CEO" head coach who runs the overall operation and, for the most part, delegates each side of the ball to the coordinator. Getting a great leader/manager to be the head coach has worked well for teams like Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore,  

But that's not the only way to win. Many head coaches got their job because they're the best in the world at calling plays and designing/implementing schemes. It doesn't make a ton of sense to have them stop doing what they're best at and actively choose to install an inferior play-caller. And to me, that's where we are with Gruden. If you're looking for a CEO-style head coach, Jay Gruden ain't it. That's just not his skill-set. The only reason you would conceivably choose him as your head coach is to get the benefit of his offensive coaching. So unless you happen to have a play-calling wunderkind on the staff -- which we don't appear to, currently -- there's just not much sense in using him as a CEO and not as the chief of the offense. 

I'm fine with replacing Gruden. But if he's here, he should probably be running the offense.

[MKnight82]

6 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Doug Pederson just won the Super Bowl last year calling all the plays. Gary Kubiak won it in 2015-16 while (mostly) calling the plays. You mentioned Payton, McCarthy, and Belichick. And this year will be the same, as it will be either McVay or Belichick. Which will make 7 of the last 10 Super Bowls won by a coach calling the plays on one side of the ball. And by my count, 8 of the 12 playoff teams had the HC calling plays (NE, KC, HOU, IND, NO, LAR, CHI, and PHI), including all 4 of the conference finalists.

As I said, totally agree with you on the idea of not mixing the coaching role and personnel role. The HC/GM role never goes well, aside from Belichick, as you stated.

And I'm not opposed to the idea of a "CEO" head coach who runs the overall operation and, for the most part, delegates each side of the ball to the coordinator. Getting a great leader/manager to be the head coach has worked well for teams like Seattle, Pittsburgh, Baltimore,  

But that's not the only way to win. Many head coaches got their job because they're the best in the world at calling plays and designing/implementing schemes. It doesn't make a ton of sense to have them stop doing what they're best at and actively choose to install an inferior play-caller. And to me, that's where we are with Gruden. If you're looking for a CEO-style head coach, Jay Gruden ain't it. That's just not his skill-set. The only reason you would conceivably choose him as your head coach is to get the benefit of his offensive coaching. So unless you happen to have a play-calling wunderkind on the staff -- which we don't appear to, currently -- there's just not much sense in using him as a CEO and not as the chief of the offense. 

I'm fine with replacing Gruden. But if he's here, he should probably be running the offense.

I agree, I actually don't have problems with Gruden's general offensively philosophy or playcalling.  My main issue is if Gruden wants to be hands off of the defense, he needs to find a competent person to do so.  Manusky has been mediocre or a straight up failure in every stop he's had as a DC.  He isn't the guy we need to run our defense IMO.  

[e16bball]

16 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

I agree, I actually don't have problems with Gruden's general offensively philosophy or playcalling.  My main issue is if Gruden wants to be hands off of the defense, he needs to find a competent person to do so.  Manusky has been mediocre or a straight up failure in every stop he's had as a DC.  He isn't the guy we need to run our defense IMO.  

Yeah, I would have liked to see Manusky replaced as well. Track record is very unimpressive.

I do actually like the idea of trying to add a "passing defense coordinator." Someone who can help game-plan the coverage schemes and have a little more expertise with that piece of the puzzle. I think we scheme pretty well up front with Manusky and Tomsula -- for the most part; I still hate that "just let them run it" thing they did against IND and GB and ATL with the two down linemen in wide splits on early downs  -- but the coverage schemes always seem very vanilla and slow to adapt to the particular opposing attack. A voice in the room that could take the pass defense up a notch or two in terms of complexity and flexibility would be very welcome.

[MKnight82]

3 minutes ago, e16bball said:

Yeah, I would have liked to see Manusky replaced as well. Track record is very unimpressive.

I do actually like the idea of trying to add a "passing defense coordinator." Someone who can help game-plan the coverage schemes and have a little more expertise with that piece of the puzzle. I think we scheme pretty well up front with Manusky and Tomsula -- for the most part; I still hate that "just let them run it" thing they did against IND and GB and ATL with the two down linemen in wide splits on early downs  -- but the coverage schemes always seem very vanilla and slow to adapt to the particular opposing attack. A voice in the room that could take the pass defense up a notch or two in terms of complexity and flexibility would be very welcome.

Gameplanning is one thing, but there needs to be a new gameday defensive playcaller too.  If you going to give someone the pre-game gameplanning duties, and we find a new defensive playcaller I'd have to ask what exactly is Manusky still doing here at that point?  UGH its so frustrating.

[lavar703]

I kinda wonder if they’re just setting things up for Todd or Gregg to be head coach next year? Let’s be honest, they know they have no chance at winning next year. I honestly think next year is going to be really, really bad. Like 2-14 bad. Too many bad vibes around this team. It’s going to be rough. 

[MKnight82]

10 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I kinda wonder if they’re just setting things up for Todd or Gregg to be head coach next year? Let’s be honest, they know they have no chance at winning next year. I honestly think next year is going to be really, really bad. Like 2-14 bad. Too many bad vibes around this team. It’s going to be rough. 

That’s why they should fire everyone right now, eat the Alex Smith cap hit and start fresh.  This is a new world in fandom, people embrace rebuilds. I think redskins fans would LOVE for the team to show some kind of strategy.  The fans are fatigued with the status quo.

[Skins212689]

20 minutes ago, lavar703 said:

I kinda wonder if they’re just setting things up for Todd or Gregg to be head coach next year? Let’s be honest, they know they have no chance at winning next year. I honestly think next year is going to be really, really bad. Like 2-14 bad. Too many bad vibes around this team. It’s going to be rough. 

Would you prefer that or for them to do another Alex Smith or Donavan McNabb type deal?

Play as best you can with the talent that is already their. Also they can add more young talent through the draft and possibly Free Agency. Yes if a SB or Playoff contending team outside the NFC East wanted Kerrigan he would be available for a nothing less than a 2nd round pick. Norman is gone while a CB is a position I look to address during the draft and Free Agency.

The team still has watchable guys people want to see. Guice, Payne, Allen, Dunbar, and Alexander to name a few for me. I don't expect them to win but during the season I'll watch. We can only hope another losing season is closer to a Gruden and Allen exist than it seems right now. 

[naptownskinsfan]

25 minutes ago, MKnight82 said:

That’s why they should fire everyone right now, eat the Alex Smith cap hit and start fresh.  This is a new world in fandom, people embrace rebuilds. I think redskins fans would LOVE for the team to show some kind of strategy.  The fans are fatigued with the status quo.

Exactly.  I am picking up my 29 game Orioles season ticket package and have no qualms doing so, because it appears they are headed in the right direction.  I'm once again at a crossroads with my Redskins tickets, even though I've only had them for three years.  

When you are faced with the prospect of taking one season with Smith's cap penalty at 27% versus taking three seasons with it being 13%, I think it's a no-brainer......you've got to take it all in one year.  We've already seen a team exposed by lack of depth when the penalty was 15%, I don't need to see it again.  Tank for the better draft pick, which means a very good QB in 2020, better than any in this year's group.  

But you know we're going to get Kyler Murray and likely trade up for him just because.  

[Woz]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, offbyone said:

But I am guessing they feel Allen has skin in the game and they want to leverage that while the trail is hot.

1. What skin does Allen have in the game?
2. What pull does Allen have in those governments? His father was a coach in the 70s, his brother a governor in the early 00s. There's been a bunch of turnover since then.

I'm not saying you're wrong. I just think Snyder is completely misreading how much Allen can actually do for him, especially in light of Allen's reputation sinking faster around the league.

On 1/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, offbyone said:

But we do know they were trying to get some federal money while the republicans still have some control.  That could be part of it.

They tried with the previous Congress (all financial bills start in the House), but that ship has sailed. Again, the people he might have been schmoozing could have retired/lost in the last election cycle. As far as I know, the lease extension for the RFK land was not signed (would have had DC control the land for another 90 years and open it to commercial development).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/powerpost/redskins-dc-working-with-congress-to-slip-stadium-provision-into-spending-bill/2018/12/07/bfb40de8-fa3d-11e8-8c9a-860ce2a8148f_story.html

Also:

Quote

Maryland officials have not given up on efforts to keep the Redskins stadium in their jurisdiction. The office of Gov. Larry Hogan (R) acknowledged Friday the signing of a memorandum of understanding with the Interior Department in September 2017 to give the state control over the 300-acre tract of federal land in Oxon Cove, adjacent to MGM National Harbor in Prince George’s County. Hogan’s vision is to offer that site for a stadium.

and

Quote

Interest by Virginia officials in landing the next stadium is less feverish under Gov. Ralph Northam (D) than predecessor Terry McAuliffe (D), who vigorously courted Snyder. Northam secured a far bigger prize in November, when Amazon announced it would build one of its two new headquarters in Crystal City, creating as many as 25,000 new jobs.

 

So, the ship may have sailed on Allen.

[Woz]

On 1/22/2019 at 8:01 PM, offbyone said:

The whole Allen thing is very nuanced.  He is what we asked Snyder for 9 years ago.  Us fans told Snyder- kick vinnie to the curb, bring in some real football people, give us some stability and you dan snyder take a big step back from day too day operations especially on the football side.  He did all that.  Unfortunately, the guy he brought in operates like a low life with translucent ethical boundaries and questionable football decisions.  But nevertheless Snyder gave us what we asked for.  And if he sticks with Allen for one more  year, he can say he did for a whole decade.  Hopefully that will be it.  I just hope the general structure put in place stays when Allen goes.  I don't want an all in one coach/gm.  And I certainly applaud snyder for staying out of the football operations at least mostly and I don't want him to reverse course here. 

Personally, what I wanted was an actual football GM. That has never been Allen (he was a contracts guy). The only time in the past decade they had a honest-to-goodness football mind in charge of the front office was when they had McCloughan. Allen didn't like that so he shanked him.

Unfortunately, the bolded is entirely accurate.

[Woz]

On 1/23/2019 at 9:58 AM, mike23md said:

Did Williams even come in for an interview? The only one I heard was Todd Bowles. 

The Redskins and Williams "talked" but it was not an "interview."

[MKnight82]

1 hour ago, Woz said:

The Redskins and Williams "talked" but it was not an "interview."

Gregg Williams: "Hey, since we're hitting a snag on salary talks with the Jets, any chance you can stir up some rumor about me going to another team so we can get the salary I want?"

Agent: "I'm on it" *dials Snyder*