RedRams Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 7 minutes ago, MookieMonstah said: I cant wait to pick Goff off 3 times. What position do you play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 57 minutes ago, Broncofan said: They're a talented D, but they're nowhere as complete as DEN's 2015 D. DEN had both Von Miller & Demarcus Ware on the outside, and had a 4-EDGE rotation to keep them fresh. Derek Wolfe pre-neck injury and Malik Jackson were the inside push that allowed the EDGE's to get to Brady. The No-fly zone wasn't just 2 CB's, they had a top 5 FS in Darian Stewart. And that's before we add Brandon Marshall & Danny Trevathan at their peak (Marshall's sadly a shell of his 2014-15 form due to injuries, ILB is such a meat grinder). They were outstanding vs. the run and pass coverage, something where the LB's on the Rams have certainly struggled with this season, and it likely necessitates coverage on Gronk with Talib. There's a reason why DVOA-wise they rank up with 2001 BAL D, the 2013 SEA D - the truly elite, historic generational D's. Part of what made them great was great talent across the board, with few to no weaknesses across the starting 11. LAR's is good, but not even close to that same level, both talent & production wise. I think there's enough to work with with Suh/Donald inside and Talib/Peters on the corners for Wade to limit NE, but keep in mind Peters is still a guy who gives up big plays (he just makes enough big plays to counter them against most teams), and Talib isn't nearly the same 2015 version. And after Talib/Peters, the drop-off is bigger. Roby-Coleman likely gets Edelman if it's not Peters (I'd guess we're going to see a lot of Talib on Gronk if Phillips holds to form). Really, its going to come down to how much pressure that front 4 gets on a very good Pats OL in pass-pro. And Wade has to stick to man coverage, off-coverage Brady will kill (and Wade has a tendency to go there early in games, and really put the D in a hole). I'm one of the guys who took the Rams FWIW in the poll above, but the belief that Wade is working with similar or better talent is just nuts. If he did, that 2018 result for the D's production would be inexcusable, even with Talib out. Now, the LAR D still matches up well with NE's O & Brady than vs. other O's, because inside pressure matters more than EDGE pressure. But there's a reason why the Pats are the 2-3 points favorites - this isn't nearly the same kind of talent Wade had to work with in 2015. It's still do-able, but not close to the same level. And again, I say that as a guy who's taken LAR in the poll above, so take it FWIW. True, true. A big chunk of that is Aaron Donald - he's by far and away the best player Philips has ever had. The rest of our D is very talented but didn't play that way this year for whatever reason. Even at CB, Talib/Peters/NRC should have been the best trio in the NFL. Joyner and John Johnson should have been the best safety combo too - but this unit never played to its potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 12 minutes ago, FrantikRam said: True, true. A big chunk of that is Aaron Donald - he's by far and away the best player Philips has ever had. The rest of our D is very talented but didn't play that way this year for whatever reason. Even at CB, Talib/Peters/NRC should have been the best trio in the NFL. Joyner and John Johnson should have been the best safety combo too - but this unit never played to its potential. Talib is 31. He was vulnerable already in his last 1-2 years in DEN to crossing routes and quick twitch guys. Peters in his KC days still gave up a ton of big plays. The safeties are ok but no real special talents. They’ve underperformed but the whole premise was that the front 4 pressure would allow them to capitalize on mistakes. And be a lot better on run D. Which didn’t translate most of the season. But it wasn’t going to be an elite D - just a much better one. You put one of the highest scoring O’s with a top 12 D that’s a conference reg season winner most years. With that O it should have been enough. It has been enough in the playoffs (along with good fortune). We will see if they can play well enough to beat BB & Brady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrantikRam Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 5 minutes ago, Broncofan said: Talib is 31. He was vulnerable already in his last 1-2 years in DEN to crossing routes and quick twitch guys. Peters in his KC days still gave up a ton of big plays. The safeties are ok but no real special talents. They’ve underperformed but the whole premise was that the front 4 pressure would allow them to capitalize on mistakes. And be a lot better on run D. Which didn’t translate most of the season. But it wasn’t going to be an elite D - just a much better one. With that O it should have been enough. It has been enough in the playoffs (along with good fortune). We will see if they can play well enough to beat BB & Brady. I don't think you're familiar enough with our personnel, which is a mistake everyone seems to make. Both Joyner and John Johnson were top 10 safeties last year, at least by PFF. Johnson was outstanding this year. Joyner not so much. Talib was still great last year. Peters was also very good. Talib has been great this year. Peters not so much. NRC has been arguably the best slot CB in the NFL over the past three years - this year not so much, although that one I do understand - personal stuff for him. Suh and Donald is a pairing that has never been seen before. Edge rush was an issue early on, but better now. LBs have severely underperformed though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MookieMonstah Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 53 minutes ago, RedRams said: What position do you play? Names Gilmore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Not watching it so I actually don't care. But I think the Rams win by a FG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackstar12 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 Say what you want about the Patriots always being here but every game has been very entertaining. Also to the people not watching we know you’ll be watching lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VigilantZombie Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 13 minutes ago, Blackstar12 said: Say what you want about the Patriots always being here but every game has been very entertaining. Also to the people not watching we know you’ll be watching lol. Actually, not every game has been entertaining. But this seasons Championship games, including NE/KC was extremely entertaining. As for watching or not watching, "you think" we'll be watching. I can't speak for anyone else but I don't care about either of these teams, so I don't care about the outcome, I'd prefer LA to win, but I really don't care. I will not be watching this game, I've got 2 kids at home I am sure we can find something better to do. If NE does lose, it would be ironic, the first SB Brady ever won was against the Rams, it would be 'coming full circle' to lose to that 'same team' in what could be his last SB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, Broncofan said: They're a talented D, but they're nowhere as complete as DEN's 2015 D. DEN had both Von Miller & Demarcus Ware on the outside, and had a 4-EDGE rotation to keep them fresh. Derek Wolfe pre-neck injury and Malik Jackson were the inside push that allowed the EDGE's to get to Brady. The No-fly zone wasn't just 2 CB's, they had a top 5 FS in Darian Stewart. And that's before we add Brandon Marshall & Danny Trevathan at their peak (Marshall's sadly a shell of his 2014-15 form due to injuries, ILB is such a meat grinder). They were outstanding vs. the run and pass coverage, something where the LB's on the Rams have certainly struggled with this season, and it likely necessitates coverage on Gronk with Talib. There's a reason why DVOA-wise they rank up with 2001 BAL D, the 2013 SEA D - the truly elite, historic generational D's. Part of what made them great was great talent across the board, with few to no weaknesses across the starting 11. LAR's is good, but not even close to that same level, both talent & production wise. I think there's enough to work with with Suh/Donald inside and Talib/Peters on the corners for Wade to limit NE, but keep in mind Peters is still a guy who gives up big plays (he just makes enough big plays to counter them against most teams), and Talib isn't nearly the same 2015 version. And after Talib/Peters, the drop-off is bigger. Roby-Coleman likely gets Edelman if it's not Peters (I'd guess we're going to see a lot of Talib on Gronk if Phillips holds to form). Really, its going to come down to how much pressure that front 4 gets on a very good Pats OL in pass-pro. And Wade has to stick to man coverage, off-coverage Brady will kill (and Wade has a tendency to go there early in games, and really put the D in a hole). I'm one of the guys who took the Rams FWIW in the poll above, but the belief that Wade is working with similar or better talent is just nuts. If he did, that 2018 result for the D's production would be inexcusable, even with Talib out. Now, the LAR D still matches up well with NE's O & Brady than vs. other O's, because inside pressure matters more than EDGE pressure. But there's a reason why the Pats are the 2-3 points favorites - this isn't nearly the same kind of talent Wade had to work with in 2015. It's still do-able, but not close to the same level. And again, I say that as a guy who's taken LAR in the poll above, so take it FWIW. That's accurate. Denver's D was definitely better. The big thing is that our defense has stepped up in a major way in the playoffs to this point. Our run defense was pure trash in the regular season, but it dominated two of the top 10 rushing offenses in the NFL to this point. Our pass defense still looks bad when Talib is out, but it's actually been good when he's healthy. It's not shutdown like Denver's was, but it forces a lot of turnovers and does a solid enough job of limiting the opposition. I won't debate over whether Talib is as good as he was in 2015, but he's still one of the NFL's best when healthy. Peters hasn't given up many big plays since Wade stopped having him spend most of his time in press man coverage. And NRC is a stud slot CB. He's one of the best there. The big question with our defense will be the pass rush. Suh has been playing a man possessed since the playoffs started. Donald is still Donald (although, he's been playing a little less aggressively to better defend the run). And our other guys are nothing special. As for the gameplan, I don't think Wade will stick to man coverage. Last time, his defense gave Brady problems by varying the looks and going against his tendencies. Here's an article that explains well how the Broncos got one over on Brady: https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/28/blanket-coverage-wade-phillips-super-bowl-50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dtait93 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 2 hours ago, RedRams said: Their style works, obviously, but Goff is probably the more threatening QB because he can stretch the field. You really think Goff is more threatening than Brady in a Super Bowl? I think those homer shades are squeezing your head a little too tightly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Broncofan Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 44 minutes ago, jrry32 said: That's accurate. Denver's D was definitely better. The big thing is that our defense has stepped up in a major way in the playoffs to this point. Our run defense was pure trash in the regular season, but it dominated two of the top 10 rushing offenses in the NFL to this point. Our pass defense still looks bad when Talib is out, but it's actually been good when he's healthy. It's not shutdown like Denver's was, but it forces a lot of turnovers and does a solid enough job of limiting the opposition. I won't debate over whether Talib is as good as he was in 2015, but he's still one of the NFL's best when healthy. Peters hasn't given up many big plays since Wade stopped having him spend most of his time in press man coverage. And NRC is a stud slot CB. He's one of the best there. The big question with our defense will be the pass rush. Suh has been playing a man possessed since the playoffs started. Donald is still Donald (although, he's been playing a little less aggressively to better defend the run). And our other guys are nothing special. As for the gameplan, I don't think Wade will stick to man coverage. Last time, his defense gave Brady problems by varying the looks and going against his tendencies. Here's an article that explains well how the Broncos got one over on Brady: https://www.si.com/nfl/2016/01/28/blanket-coverage-wade-phillips-super-bowl-50 Yeah, I'll absolutely concede that you don't beat Brady by just playing the same D scheme over & over. Sooner or later, they'll find a weakness and exploit it mercilessly. So there has to be some variety. It's just I really dislike the off-coverage he usually starts off with. Our D gave up a ton of points early on in games in 2015 while he went to that base route. I hope he changes it up. But yeah, he's got to come up with several different looks if he wants to counter BB & Brady's elite ability to read and adjust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKS97 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 hour ago, Blackstar12 said: Say what you want about the Patriots always being here but every game has been very entertaining. Also to the people not watching we know you’ll be watching lol. It’s still overkill at this point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrry32 Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, Broncofan said: Yeah, I should concede that you don't beat Brady by just playing the same D scheme over & over. Sooner or later, they'll find a weakness and exploit it mercilessly. So there has to be some variety. It's just I really dislike the off-coverage he usually starts off with. Our D gave up a ton of points early on in games in 2015 while he went to that base route. I hope he changes it up. But yeah, he's got to come up with several different looks if he wants to counter BB & Brady's elite ability to read and adjust. Yeah, I have no issue with him not pressing. We just don't have the horses to run a press-heavy scheme this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apparition Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 1 minute ago, CKS97 said: It’s still overkill at this point You know you don't have to do this to yourself, right? Go read a book. Get some fresh air. Just stop thinking about how much you hate the Patriots. It'll do you a world of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted January 23, 2019 Share Posted January 23, 2019 3 hours ago, ChazStandard said: Gordon averaged about 18 yards a catch and was consistently targetted deep. Without him, the deep shots dialled back because they have no one with the speed/size to be a genuine deep threat, except Patterson, and his hands are suspect. Brady is perfectly capable of throwing deep. Look at the Dorsett TD against the Chiefs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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