Dak, the QB of the future or not.

[DaBoys]

Truth is Dak sacked himself almost every game. We all saw it and now there's examined tape that proves it. I felt like we had a swinging door at LG, and tape proves that is also true.

 

I think Tyron got caught up trying to help out the LG a few times but PFF graded him to be the best PASS blocker in the game last season. Zack Martin was a stud

 

Looney, who you said was TERRIBLE at pass blocking gave up exactly Zero sacks. 

 

So that leaves Collins and Dak. Collins was better at RT than Dak was at QB.

 

Our LG(s), and QB were responsible for most of the sacking in 2018.

[Matts4313]

Dak = 26%

Watson = 22%

Wilson = 25%

Mahommes = 29%

Trubisky = 35%

Goff = 21%

Jackson = 35%

^^^^^^^^^^ All of these guys are terrible OL. 

Are you even interested in facts @DaBoys? I would really like to know. 

[Matts4313]

11 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Truth is Dak sacked himself almost every game. We all saw it and now there's examined tape that proves it. I felt like we had a swinging door at LG, and tape proves that is also true.

 

I think Tyron got caught up trying to help out the LG a few times but PFF graded him to be the best PASS blocker in the game last season. Zack Martin was a stud

 

Looney, who you said was TERRIBLE at pass blocking gave up exactly Zero sacks. 

 

So that leaves Collins and Dak. Collins was better at RT than Dak was at QB.

 

Our LG(s), and QB were responsible for most of the sacking in 2018.

And our pass blocking was responsible for 2.65 sacks per a game. WHICH HAS BEEN MY POINT FOR MONTHS!! <= You keep ignoring this.

Loony didnt give up sacks (centers rarely do), I said he wasnt great at pass blocking. What about pressures? What about helping our LG? The point was he, along with the OL, were terrible last year in pass blocking. 

And I want you to read this over and over: The QB is almost always #1 most responsible for sacks. That isnt the point. We all know Dak could do better. He was responsible for 26% of his teams sacks, thats not great. 

 

The point - and you refuse to admit it no matter how much the facts are in front of you - our passblocking was responsible for 74% of the sacks, which is 43 total - which is objectively awful. Just admit it. The pass blocking was awful. You can do it. You can say it. 

[DaBoys]

6 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

And I want you to read this over and over: The QB is almost always #1 most responsible for sacks. That isnt the point. We all know Dak could do better. He was responsible for 26% of his teams sacks, thats not great. 

 

Oh please, guy, don't act like you are teaching me anything.

 

I said MONTHS ago during the season, that the QB is the one who dictates pass rush and you and @Nextyearfordaboyz had a whale of a time making fun of the idea. I will dig up the conversation if I have to. It's probably in this thread actually.

Now here we are with concrete evidence that Dak was terrible in the pocket and all of a sudden you think you are teaching me something about pressure because you are forced to change your narrative. 

I'm glad you finally agree with me that Dak was not good and took way to many sacks, but don't act like it was your own original thought. 

You're welcome.

 

 

[Matts4313]

3 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Oh please, guy, don't act like you are teaching me anything.

 

I said MONTHS ago during the season, that the QB is the one who dictates pass rush and you and @Nextyearfordaboyz had a whale of a time making fun of the idea. I will dig up the conversation if I have to. It's probably in this thread actually.

Now here we are with concrete evidence that Dak was terrible in the pocket and all of a sudden you think you are teaching me something about pressure because you are forced to change your narrative. 

I'm glad you finally agree with me that Dak was not good and took way to many sacks, but don't act like it was your own original thought. 

You're welcome.

 

 

Ive never disagreed with that idea, so go look it up. 

And what we have here is concrete evidence that our pass blocking was some of the absolute worst in the NFL. You still wont admit it.  Here is your problem => You think if you speak the truth that it invalidates your stance. So you ignore the truth. You try as hard as possible to avoid the truth. 

The truth => Dak should have taken about ~4-6 less sacks on his own accord last year. He can get better, but mobile QBs all take near double digit sacks. 

The truth => The pass blocking should have given up about ~15-20 less sacks last year. 

You take 58 sacks - ~25 = 33 sacks. That would have been an appropriate number. 

You can still argue Dak needs to improve while recognizing the OL was absolutely pathetic. 

[Matts4313]

Here is another truth. Tom Brady - THE GOAT - was responsible for 20% of his teams sacks. If he was on the Cowboys, that would have been 12 sacks. Dak was at 15. Which means the difference between "an elite QB who knows how to get rid of the ball" and "trash that is holding the team back" is 3 plays out of 650 passes. 

 

That is what you are arguing, indirectly. 

[DaBoys]

23 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

And our pass blocking was responsible for 2.65 sacks per a game. WHICH HAS BEEN MY POINT FOR MONTHS!! <= You keep ignoring this.

That's because it's inaccurate. It would be 2.1875 sacks per game according to the Strum graphic. And 1 of those 2 sacks came exclusively from the LG position. 

Our QB sacked himself almost every game

Our LG allowed a sack almost every game.

 

The other 4 guys were pretty damn good, allowing about 1 sack per game between the 4 of them, or ~ .25 sacks per game each. That's not bad.

[Matts4313]

@DaBoys => I am going to give you a list of all the NFL Passblocking units that were worse than the Cowboys 43 credited sacks:

1. The Texans.

 

THAT IT.   Thats the entire list of NFL pass blocking units worse than the Cowboys at giving up sacks. 

[Matts4313]

1 minute ago, DaBoys said:

That's because it's inaccurate. It would be 2.1875 sacks per game according to the Strum graphic. And 1 of those 2 sacks came exclusively from the LG position. 

Our QB sacked himself almost every game

Our LG allowed a sack almost every game.

 

The other 4 guys were pretty damn good, allowing about 1 sack per game between the 4 of them, or ~ .25 sacks per game each. That's not bad.

Dak = 15 (<1%)

Not Dak = 43 (43/16 = 2.69%) => As a whole group that is terrible. 

If you must exclude coaching (which why would you, they are part of the equation): its 39/16 2.44%

And this is just sacks, you are forgetting that Collins gave up 46 pressures ALONE (almost 3 a game). 

[DaBoys]

19 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Ive never disagreed with that idea, so go look it up. 

Lies.

 

 

[DaBoys]

9 minutes ago, Matts4313 said:

Dak = 15 (<1%)

Not Dak = 43 (43/16 = 2.69%) => As a whole group that is terrible. 

If you must exclude coaching (which why would you, they are part of the equation): its 39/16 2.44%

And this is just sacks, you are forgetting that Collins gave up 46 pressures ALONE (almost 3 a game). 

Tyron -7

LG -15.5

C -0

RG -3.5

RT -9

 

Total= 35

35/16= 2.1875

Basically our OL allowed 2 sacks per game, and 1 of those always came from LG.

So again, our LG and QB were responsible for 2 sacks per game.

 

The other FOUR guys ~.25 per game

[Matts4313]

5 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Lies.

 

 

You are changing the argument there. First, let me say I see your point. Before we move on, I wanted to state that. Now:

 

The argument that QB isnt most responsible isnt what I stated in that thread. I argued that OL is also extremely important. Which it is. Lets do simple math based on 30 years of research:

QB = 45% responsible

OL = 55% responsible (excluding everyone else for easy math) 

5 OL/55% = 11% responsibility for each OL (again, simple math)

So individually the QB is most responsibility. Cumulatively its the OL.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, F.O. says the split is closer to 25/75.

QB 25%

OL 75%/5 = 15% per an OL

 

So again, the QB is going to be the single biggest factor. The OL as a whole will be the biggest cumulative factor. 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dak was responsible for 26% of his teams sacks.

Not Dak was responsible for 74% of his teams sacks. 

^^^^^^^^^^^ That is nearly perfectly in line with what F.O. argues, and much better (for Dak) than a 30 year study. 

 

 

So my point still stands. The QB will almost always be the #1 person attributed for sacks INDIVIDUALLY.  But the OL AS A WHOLE is the most important piece to keeping a QB standing up right. 

[Matts4313]

10 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Tyron -7

LG -15.5

C -0

RG -3.5

RT -9

 

Total= 35

35/16= 2.1875

Basically our OL allowed 2 sacks per game, and 1 of those always came from LG.

So again, our LG and QB were responsible for 2 sacks per game.

 

The other FOUR guys ~.25 per game

So our RB isnt part of passblocking now? Wasnt that one of the reasons we drafted him?

And we are ignoring scheme all together in terms of pass blocking? I thought you hated linehan. Turns out he was only responsible for .25 per a game. Not bad, huh?

[Matts4313]

19.5/16 = 1.22/game 

@DaBoys calls those 4 people .25/game. 

His math is terrible. 

In reality:

Dak 1 per a game.

LG 1 per a game

Not Dak, Not LG, other OL 1 per a game

RB and Coaching 1 every 2-3 games. 

Again, the Not Daks are terrible. 

[Matts4313]

Also @DaBoys you said:

Quote

I said MONTHS ago during the season, that the QB is the one who dictates pass rush and you and @Nextyearfordaboyz had a whale of a time making fun of the idea. I will dig up the conversation if I have to. It's probably in this thread actually.

Now here we are with concrete evidence that Dak was terrible in the pocket and all of a sudden you think you are teaching me something about pressure because you are forced to change your narrative

YOU said:

Quote

"the QB is near totally responsible for the pressure he faces"

I said:

Quote

I dont understand why you are so white or black about everything. You are a really, really stubborn person. Its asinine to take these stances that you do. 

Manning was GOAT QB potential. He was incredible at a lot of things. Including not getting sacked. He himself said he could only do it with his OL. SHARED RESPONSIBILITY. 

NYFDB Said:

Quote

Matts and I have the totally reasonable position that both offensive line and quarterbacks matter when it comes to pressures and sacks.  So no, it does not surprise me to see that elite quarterbacks take fewer sacks.

You are the one claiming that *literally*  offensive line does not matter for these  statistics. It’s borderline insane. 

A 30 year study said its 45% QB/55% not QB

A F.O. article said its 25% QB/75% Not QB

 

So again, I ask you, are you at all interested in facts? Because once again, you are factually wrong and factually dismissive.