Chiefs fire DC Bob Sutton

[Jakuvious]

4 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

I'll disagree with that first point. The year before he became our DC our defense was ranked 25th in points. From 2013 on we were 5, 2, 3, 7, 15, and now 24.

His last two years have been bad and we absolutely lost games that we shouldn't have along the way. His in-game adjustments were pretty much non-existent and he didn't really cater the defense to his players strengths. Instead, he was forcing players to play in his scheme even when they struggled.

I'm hoping that a new DC will bring some fire to the defense. However, after a bad draft last year, Brett Veach really needs to up his game and get the defense one or two guys who can make an immediate impact. This is a huge off-season for him and the team as a whole.

I wouldn't call last year's draft bad. No first rounder. I thought Nnadi and DOD played well when given time. Watts got injured too soon to really tell. Smith was good as a KR, but he and Mackenzie were known projects. Speaks didn't inspire confidence, for sure, but at this stage I think it's more undecided than bad. A lot of mid-round defenders that didn't see enough snaps to fully grade. Sutton didn't help this, too. He was slow to get DOD, Nnadi, and Watts playing time despite them looking better than the vets in front of them.

[Chiefer]

2 hours ago, kingseanjohn said:

I agree that he needed to go. But to say he wasn't good in his first 5 years is just wrong.

And those playoff collapses were on the offense as well. When it mattered the team couldn't move the chains and score.

So youre offense scores 44 points, at one point its 41-24, and its the offenses fault you lose? Riiiiiiight

A guy who allows that isnt gonna win you a SB with that defense. You fell for it, so did Andy unfortunately.

But its remedied now, and this should be an attractive job. Complete freedom,  a long leash, great offense with a MVP caliber QB backing you up, and great pass rushers. As long as you can field a below average defense youll be loved by a raucous crowd that makes it hard for opposing offenses to play at home.

Of course Andy could always do something stupid, like promote his son the DL coach. I wouldn't throw that out the window, he did oromote Juan Castillo afterall

[Nabbs4u]

Well was there really any other option to fall on the proverbial sword? Someone had to? Certainly  wasn't going to be the DE they drafted in the 1st rd. Just saying.

[goldfishwars]

8 hours ago, KingOfTheDot said:

Lol. Not even close. 

What’s not close? Sutton installed Ryan’s defense in KC, had great initial success and has been exposed since. Ryan absolutely killed a successful Buffalo defense last time he was in the league, it’s a scheme that has not found answers to modern offenses.  

[KingOfNewYork]

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

What’s not close? Sutton installed Ryan’s defense in KC, had great initial success and has been exposed since. Ryan absolutely killed a successful Buffalo defense last time he was in the league, it’s a scheme that has not found answers to modern offenses.  

Sutton lost a lot of talent he had when he first arrived in KC. 

Rex was putting square pegs into round holes. 

Rex is an exotic blitzer, who loads the box and puts his Corners on Islands. Rex is aggressive on every down. 

Talent is still important no matter the scheme. 

Just because Sutton worked under Rex doesn’t mean he ran the same stuff, the same ways.

[KManX89]

19 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Problem is, he might only last a year there as DC before being interviewed for HC positions. 

[Chiefs_5627]

 

[JBURGE]

10 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

 

I would love that hire for them

[TheKillerNacho]

11 minutes ago, Chiefs_5627 said:

 

Has Spags led an even serviceable defense since that one Super Bowl year with the Giants?

I don't hate it cause I think the Chiefs would benefit by switching to the 4-3 given their personnel, but I wouldn't be overly excited about this retread.

[Edge]

Spagnuolos best success happened over a decade ago. NFL offenses have changed dramatically since then. So please help me out. Was he any good in his jobs for the Rams, Saints, Ravens and his latest time for the Giants? Did he rather relied on talent or did he developed it. Was he able to find succes just due to his scheme? I'm not really sure what to think of his latest work.

In todays game i'd like to have a guy who is on the puls of time. A guy like Hewitt, Richard or give me a college coach like Venables (DC Clemson). I think those can be guys who are at the puls of time, who could adjust to todays NFL offenses. If Spagnuolo is able to do this, i'd take his experience, but i'm really not sure that he can do it. So one of those other 3 guys might be a smarter hiring.

[Chiefer]

Please don't go to your good ol boy network Andy.

Spags defenses allowed the most yards in NFL history, and Rex has a complicated scheme(something players complained about)

[kingseanjohn]

15 hours ago, Chiefer said:

So youre offense scores 44 points, at one point its 41-24, and its the offenses fault you lose? Riiiiiiight

A guy who allows that isnt gonna win you a SB with that defense. You fell for it, so did Andy unfortunately.

But its remedied now, and this should be an attractive job. Complete freedom,  a long leash, great offense with a MVP caliber QB backing you up, and great pass rushers. As long as you can field a below average defense youll be loved by a raucous crowd that makes it hard for opposing offenses to play at home.

Of course Andy could always do something stupid, like promote his son the DL coach. I wouldn't throw that out the window, he did oromote Juan Castillo afterall

I didn't say it was the offense's fault. I said that it was on the offense as well. Both sides of the ball failed in those games when it mattered.

But enough about this, let's talk about our next DC.

[EL Guapo]

Spags coached the 2016 Giants which had a very good defense but that was it. He'll have pass rushers which would help him

[Jakuvious]

I can't quite make up my mind on the prospect of Spagnuolo. His resume on paper is very much a mixed bag. A fantastic first stint with the Giants. He had one decent year with the Rams as HC, but otherwise that stint was a catastrophe. His year with the Saints was miserable, which is interesting, as the Saints had a good D the year prior and the year after he was there. But then on the flip side, when he went to the Giants, they went from terrible to spectacular, for one year, then back to terrible. He has a very strong and consistent track record as a position coach, but any HC or DC stint was either very short or very inconsistent.

Schematically I like his approach more than Sutton's. He's much more aggressive, and I think that would benefit us in a few position groups (particularly LB and S) where some of our talent looks terribly out of place playing read and react. I feel like Hitchens, Ragland, and even Sorensen were better off when they would just attack as opposed to trying to diagnose and then try to make a stop, and Sutton's defense didn't seem to allow that. So much of our ILBs time spent standing there waiting. Part of why our run D was always horrid. We gave them those first 2-3 yards up the middle without a fight.

But the results give me pause. If we're taking a gamble, I'd rather go with an up and comer than a retread. If we're going retread, it needs to be someone who was consistently great, IMO. And that guy isn't out there this late.

[kingseanjohn]

53 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

But the results give me pause. If we're taking a gamble, I'd rather go with an up and comer than a retread. If we're going retread, it needs to be someone who was consistently great, IMO. And that guy isn't out there this late.

I agree with this. I'd be ok with Rex Ryan. It's a similar system to what we ran but he's more aggressive with it. I think he'd have more immediate results.

Ideally, we find an assistant from another team or even someone in college to bring up. I won't pretend to know who that would be though.