Chiefs hire Steve Spagnuolo as DC

[Elky]

1 hour ago, Thelonebillsfan said:

The NFL's nepotism is beyond the pale sometimes.

Dude has had one good defense in his entire career.

Reid and Spags aren't related.

But overall, Spags is only in the league because Josh McDaniels called quite possibly his worst game ever in Super Bowl XLII.

[Elky]

disregard

[TheKillerNacho]

7 minutes ago, Elky said:

Reid and Spags aren't related.

nep·o·tism

/ˈnepəˌtizəm/

noun

1. the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.

[minutemancl]

11 hours ago, The LBC said:

He's the DC equivalent of Jeff Fisher as a HC or Mike McCoy as an OC - he's stubborn, dated in his approach, and by and large opposing coaches have figured out his system, how to beat it, and in that vein his playcalling becomes pretty dang predictable.

Jones and Speaks should flourish, possibly Derek Nnadi too, but (and you're probably in a better position to make this evaluation - hint, hint, input requested) I'm not sure I see a LB outside of Speaks (who probably is more of a DL in Spags scheme) that is an outstanding fit in SS' defense that the Chiefs have on roster.  Maybe Dorian O'Daniel as a WILL, but I'm not sold on him having a 3-down role there just yet.

I'm not all that familiar with the personnel that the Chiefs have, but I can tell you the roles and skills Spags covets. 

He runs a basic 4-3 with tons of blitzing, normally done and most effective with sub packages. He had his famous "4 aces" package in 2007 with Tuck, Strahan, Osi, and Kiwanuka that always got to the QB on 3rd down. Probably is, that requires a substitution, as that personnel grouping was never on the field for 1st and 2nd downs. Justin Tuck was honestly the ideal DE for a Spags defense. Strong and crazy athletic. If Justin Houston and Dee Ford don't mind putting their hands in the dirt, they could find a ton of success and big numbers here. In the "4 aces" package, he bumps 2 of the pass rushers inside to DT. On first and second downs, ideally he has a quicker, undersized, penetrating UT and a more run defending specializing NT.

That's the fun and exciting and interesting part of his defenses. Where it all falls apart is on the back end. He gets way, way too cute with his coverages. Justin Tuck takes pride in the fact that he has played every position in a Spags defense, which is cool for him personally, but not for the defense. You don't want an almost 300 lbs guy playing corner, but Tuck did for a few plays under Spags. Safeties roll, corners blitz, but you need some really smart guys in the secondary to keep up with it all and they all have to be on the same page. When they're not, you get ripped apart. Also, TEs will always be open against a Spags defense, but I have come to find out that is the case for most defenses nowadays.

I'll add more later. Any time you make a transition from 4-3 to 3-4 or vice versa, you need about 2 full offseasons to get enough guys to run that defense correctly. I fully expect that to be the case in KC

[TheKillerNacho]

9 minutes ago, minutemancl said:

I'm not all that familiar with the personnel that the Chiefs have, but I can tell you the roles and skills Spags covets. 

He runs a basic 4-3 with tons of blitzing, normally done and most effective with sub packages. He had his famous "4 aces" package in 2007 with Tuck, Strahan, Osi, and Kiwanuka that always got to the QB on 3rd down. Probably is, that requires a substitution, as that personnel grouping was never on the field for 1st and 2nd downs. Justin Tuck was honestly the ideal DE for a Spags defense. Strong and crazy athletic. If Justin Houston and Dee Ford don't mind putting their hands in the dirt, they could find a ton of success and big numbers here. In the "4 aces" package, he bumps 2 of the pass rushers inside to DT. On first and second downs, ideally he has a quicker, undersized, penetrating UT and a more run defending specializing NT.

That's the fun and exciting and interesting part of his defenses. Where it all falls apart is on the back end. He gets way, way too cute with his coverages. Justin Tuck takes pride in the fact that he has played every position in a Spags defense, which is cool for him personally, but not for the defense. You don't want an almost 300 lbs guy playing corner, but Tuck did for a few plays under Spags. Safeties roll, corners blitz, but you need some really smart guys in the secondary to keep up with it all and they all have to be on the same page. When they're not, you get ripped apart. Also, TEs will always be open against a Spags defense, but I have come to find out that is the case for most defenses nowadays.

I'll add more later. Any time you make a transition from 4-3 to 3-4 or vice versa, you need about 2 full offseasons to get enough guys to run that defense correctly. I fully expect that to be the case in KC

Actually I think the Chiefs can transition pretty easily to the 4-3 with their personnel, if they are able to retain Dee Ford.

Dee Ford - Chris Jones - Allen Bailey/Derrick Nnadi - Justin Houston(?)
Anthony Hitchens - Reggie Ragland - Dorian O'Daniel

Hitchens has plenty experience at all three linebacker positions with his time in Dallas. Will probably benefit from the transition.

Only real problem is Justin Houston. Not sure if he can make a transition back to a DE. Might be best to leave him at Linebacker but he's kinda an odd man out, here.
 

[minutemancl]

6 hours ago, goldfishwars said:

That front seven was assembled entirely in Sutton's vision. Spag is similarly inflexible, so does this hire mean a personnel overhaul? 

Yes. 100%. I think he will want to keep the pass rushers, but that would be it.

[Buckweath]

He was supposedly coveted by the Browns who ultimately picked Wilks. I am very high on John Dorsey so I liked to read that.

Other than that, I dont know what to think of this hire but the guy has lead some elite defense more than once in the past so he is probably not the worst DC out there.

There is no way they believe it will be a 2 year transition btw. Chiefs are going all in next year. The offense should be about the same and I expect their GM Veach to be very aggressive on the FA market, on top of having an additional 2nd round pick in a draft that should be  defense heavy again for the Chiefs.

[swede700]

9 hours ago, y*so*blu said:

That's uninspiring.

I'm not sure any of the options mentioned were all that inspiring anyway.  

[swede700]

58 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

nep·o·tism

/ˈnepəˌtizəm/

noun

1. the practice among those with power or influence of favoring relatives or friends, especially by giving them jobs.

Sure, they are friends, but it has been 13 years since they worked together.  I think enough time has passed that the nepotism claim is a little thinner of an argument in this case. 

It's far more relevant in my team's case, as there have been 3 coaches sons that have worked or currently work for the team in Adam Zimmer, Scott Turner and Klint Kubiak.  And I personally don't think there's a huge problem with it in most cases.  The most successful places have people working for them that are comfortable with each other and know what each other does best, so they can get the most out of them.    

[goldfishwars]

1 hour ago, minutemancl said:

Yes. 100%. I think he will want to keep the pass rushers, but that would be it.

Would that mean Dee Ford with his hand in the dirt?

[TheKillerNacho]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

Sure, they are friends, but it has been 13 years since they worked together.  I think enough time has passed that the nepotism claim is a little thinner of an argument in this case. 

It's far more relevant in my team's case, as there have been 3 coaches sons that have worked or currently work for the team in Adam Zimmer, Scott Turner and Klint Kubiak.  And I personally don't think there's a huge problem with it in most cases.  The most successful places have people working for them that are comfortable with each other and know what each other does best, so they can get the most out of them.    

I mean... it's hard to say this signing is based off of merit.

[swede700]

4 minutes ago, TheKillerNacho said:

I mean... it's hard to say this signing is based off of merit.

True, I'll give you that, because he's been terrible for most of the past few years.  But, the talent wasn't there either, much like it'll be here in KC (where I live).  It's going to take awhile, because the lack of talent on defense is atrocious.  

[onejayhawk]

2 hours ago, TheKillerNacho said:

Actually I think the Chiefs can transition pretty easily to the 4-3 with their personnel, if they are able to retain Dee Ford.

Dee Ford - Chris Jones - Allen Bailey/Derrick Nnadi - Justin Houston(?)
Anthony Hitchens - Reggie Ragland - Dorian O'Daniel

Hitchens has plenty experience at all three linebacker positions with his time in Dallas. Will probably benefit from the transition.

Only real problem is Justin Houston. Not sure if he can make a transition back to a DE. Might be best to leave him at Linebacker but he's kinda an odd man out, here.
 

 

Houston takes the O Vernon role. Ford is one DE and the other is Breeland Speaks. The loser in all this is Ragland. Hitchens is tailor-made for MLB and Will would be Dorian o'Daniel. 

J

[minutemancl]

1 hour ago, goldfishwars said:

Would that mean Dee Ford with his hand in the dirt?

Spags blitzes a lot, but his best pass rushers on 3rd down all have their hands in the dirt. I don't know nearly enough about Ford to know if he would be effective doing that or not. The reason I said Spags would want to keep them is because he needs 4 good edge rushers for his defense to be effective.

I keep saying "Spags needs...", and I'm not exaggerating. He does not adjust his scheme to his players' strengths at all. It was really incredible watching Bettcher make defensive adjustments throughout the season and in games this year. Spags never did that.

[Buckweath]

1 hour ago, swede700 said:

True, I'll give you that, because he's been terrible for most of the past few years.  But, the talent wasn't there either, much like it'll be here in KC (where I live).  It's going to take awhile, because the lack of talent on defense is atrocious.  

That's not true at all. I expected that defense to be a top 15 unit prior to the season but then Ragland and Hitchens were massive disappointments. Berry didnt play. The safeties were just useless and most of all, Sutton was just bad. The defense underachieved and that's on Sutton. That's why he was fired.

The Chiefs have got a great trio of passrushers in Ford, Houston and Jones. Plus they have Speaks and Kpassagnon.

You have Fuller at CB who is a good talent. I liked what Ward showed when he started playing.

Nnadi on the DL that looks like it will be a good one. 

I dont know what to think of Hitchens moving forward but all in all, you hit a strong draft with an additional 2nd round pick and you are aggressive on the FA market signing an Earl Thomas and DL maybe Richardson, and you can have a pretty good defense next year.