Chiefer Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 I was told Spags runs a 43 under but really its a normal 43? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 24 minutes ago, Buckweath said: That's not true at all. I expected that defense to be a top 15 unit prior to the season but then Ragland and Hitchens were massive disappointments. Berry didnt play. The safeties were just useless and most of all, Sutton was just bad. The defense underachieved and that's on Sutton. That's why he was fired. The Chiefs have got a great trio of passrushers in Ford, Houston and Jones. Plus they have Speaks and Kpassagnon. You have Fuller at CB who is a good talent. I liked what Ward showed when he started playing. Nnadi on the DL that looks like it will be a good one. I dont know what to think of Hitchens moving forward but all in all, you hit a strong draft with an additional 2nd round pick and you are aggressive on the FA market signing an Earl Thomas and DL maybe Richardson, and you can have a pretty good defense next year. If you think that's enough talent on defense, then you need to look around the league. The talent on that defense is severely lacking. While Bob Sutton did them no favors, he did a competent job with what they had, just not good enough to keep the job long-term (I actually think he should have been fired a year ago). There was zero chance that they were going to be a top-15 unit. If you thought that, I'd like some of what you were smoking, as I expected that they always would be a bottom 10 defense. FWIW, don't expect Dee Ford to be on that team next season and I think they'd be much better off saving $14M in cap space by cutting Houston (and taking the $7M dead cap hit) than attempt to try and force to work in the 4-3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 Cutting Ford and Houston? Ford is an ideal LEO, hes gonna eat there. Hef have to get franchised or signed though. Houston at SAM is a waste, hed be solid as a base end i think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 52 minutes ago, Buckweath said: That's not true at all. I expected that defense to be a top 15 unit prior to the season but then Ragland and Hitchens were massive disappointments. Berry didnt play. The safeties were just useless and most of all, Sutton was just bad. The defense underachieved and that's on Sutton. That's why he was fired. The Chiefs have got a great trio of passrushers in Ford, Houston and Jones. Plus they have Speaks and Kpassagnon. You have Fuller at CB who is a good talent. I liked what Ward showed when he started playing. Nnadi on the DL that looks like it will be a good one. I dont know what to think of Hitchens moving forward but all in all, you hit a strong draft with an additional 2nd round pick and you are aggressive on the FA market signing an Earl Thomas and DL maybe Richardson, and you can have a pretty good defense next year. I don't think we can spend any money on free agents this offseason. At least not big money, if we want to have enough money to extend Hill and Jones before they become free agents after the next season and we also need some money to franchise tag Ford. Then you have guys like Fuller to extend after the next season as well and if the reports of an early Mahomes extension are true, you definitely need money for him as well. That's a lot of money, so we really need to save a lot of money for the future years. Obviously cutting people helps, but with a QB like Mahomes on a big contract we're almost never be able to make big splashes like those 2 guys on the free agent market. We really need to build through the draft and i would like to see that philosophy keep running this offseason, unless we really want to go all in next year which will probably give us some trouble down the road to keep all the talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 1 hour ago, minutemancl said: Spags blitzes a lot, but his best pass rushers on 3rd down all have their hands in the dirt. I don't know nearly enough about Ford to know if he would be effective doing that or not. The reason I said Spags would want to keep them is because he needs 4 good edge rushers for his defense to be effective. I keep saying "Spags needs...", and I'm not exaggerating. He does not adjust his scheme to his players' strengths at all. It was really incredible watching Bettcher make defensive adjustments throughout the season and in games this year. Spags never did that. The bold sentence really concerns me. That's exactly what we already missed with Sutton. If he's the same kind of DC, than i doubt we did us much favour to bring him in here, other than i do think a 4-3 defense could work better for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 45 minutes ago, Chiefer said: Cutting Ford and Houston? Ford is an ideal LEO, hes gonna eat there. Hef have to get franchised or signed though. Houston at SAM is a waste, hed be solid as a base end i think. He may, but the question is whether they are going to want to pay Ford. I'll admit, even though I live here in the KC area, I don't pay nearly as much attention as I should, but I'm too consumed with concerning myself about my childhood team, the Vikings, and fixing their issues. And I'm not sure Dee Ford is big enough to play LEO. But, I guess if you run him like the Seahawks used Irvin, then he can, but even still, that'd be a lot of money to pay for a one-trick pony. Plus, you already have too many defensive players that can't stop the run, himself included. You need someone who can. There are a ton of edge rushers in this draft. You can get the same production out of someone else who will cost far less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom cody Posted January 25, 2019 Share Posted January 25, 2019 He's a good guy, be interesting to see how this hire will work out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 7 hours ago, Chiefer said: Cutting Ford and Houston? Ford is an ideal LEO, hes gonna eat there. Hef have to get franchised or signed though. Houston at SAM is a waste, hed be solid as a base end i think. 4 I agree they sign Ford. It may be a one-year franchise tag, but they will sign him. Houston is overpaid and they should restructure. That said, Olivier Vernon was a beast in that defense and his role is largely what Houston has been doing. They have no need for him at DE. 7 hours ago, swede700 said: If you think that's enough talent on defense, then you need to look around the league. The talent on that defense is severely lacking. While Bob Sutton did them no favors, he did a competent job with what they had, just not good enough to keep the job long-term (I actually think he should have been fired a year ago). There was zero chance that they were going to be a top-15 unit. If you thought that, I'd like some of what you were smoking, as I expected that they always would be a bottom 10 defense. FWIW, don't expect Dee Ford to be on that team next season and I think they'd be much better off saving $14M in cap space by cutting Houston (and taking the $7M dead cap hit) than attempt to try and force to work in the 4-3. I did look. Before Chris Jones, you have Aaron Donald and...? And, no one. He's the best interior DL in the AFC. Ford was elite at Edge and Houston was solid to excellent. The star talent is there. The depth looks decent. What was lacking was the elite deep player. That guy used to be Eric Berry. When they lost him early in 2017 the defense started to unravel. He was able to take a vanilla defense and make it special. Spagnuolo is a different sort of vanilla. In his case, it all starts with the pass rush and the Chiefs have that. I doubt they start well next year, but the 2nd half should be much better. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chiefer Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 1 hour ago, onejayhawk said: I agree they sign Ford. It may be a one-year franchise tag, but they will sign him. Houston is overpaid and they should restructure. That said, Olivier Vernon was a beast in that defense and his role is largely what Houston has been doing. They have no need for him at DE. I did look. Before Chris Jones, you have Aaron Donald and...? And, no one. He's the best interior DL in the AFC. Ford was elite at Edge and Houston was solid to excellent. The star talent is there. The depth looks decent. What was lacking was the elite deep player. That guy used to be Eric Berry. When they lost him early in 2017 the defense started to unravel. He was able to take a vanilla defense and make it special. Spagnuolo is a different sort of vanilla. In his case, it all starts with the pass rush and the Chiefs have that. I doubt they start well next year, but the 2nd half should be much better. J Vernon played SAM in some games but primarily plays on the line for the Giants w/Spags I hate Houstons role on the Chiefs with Sutton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habbsawce Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Maybe it's wishful thinking, but with time out of the game maybe Spags has learned a few things and evolved? While it's fair to assume he hasn't changed, the optimist in me is going to wait and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KManX89 Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 23 hours ago, Chiefer said: Cutting Ford and Houston? Ford is an ideal LEO, hes gonna eat there. Hef have to get franchised or signed though. Houston at SAM is a waste, hed be solid as a base end i think. Problem is, one or both of those 2 is gonna get wasted in this scheme. Houston is already declining and I don't think Ford will be that productive as a pass rusher in the SAM. The Vikes already tried that with Anthony Barr (who was a pure pass rusher coming out of college) and it failed big time. Not everyone can be a Von Miller and I don't see Ford being that guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuskieTitan Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Well that's got to be a bit disappointing for Chiefs fans. He's better than Sutton, but not by much. And I don't think a 4-3 is the answer to their problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Ramster Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 Oh wow.. Not the best of moves but hey man whatever reid wants. I don't love the move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jakuvious Posted January 26, 2019 Share Posted January 26, 2019 2 hours ago, RuskieTitan said: Well that's got to be a bit disappointing for Chiefs fans. He's better than Sutton, but not by much. And I don't think a 4-3 is the answer to their problems... I don't think 4-3 will change much, personally. We spent the vast majority of snaps in a 2-4-5 nickel or a 2-3-6 dime set, with Houston and Ford rushing on the line, so we spent most of our snaps in a wide 4-3 anyway. I think it will be slightly better in base as we'll stop dropping Houston in coverage so much, and we haven't had a proper full-time NT since Poe started to regress anyway. But we were in base so little I doubt that has a substantial impact. The one thing I'm hoping has a positive impact is the aggressiveness. Spags likes blitzing, and he likes mixing up pressure packages. Sutton's scheme, in coverage and pass rush, was basically beat the man in front of you. Worked when we were uber talented on D. Stopped working as we lost a couple guys (Poe, Johnson, and Berry, in particular.) It's why our pass rush remained fantastic, as Jones, Houston, and Ford were able to beat guys regularly. But our run D depreciated as we no longer had top tier interior run defenders from front to back, and our pass D struggled against RBs, TEs, and slot WRs because of our struggles at ILB and S. Sutton's scheme relied on being able to play vanilla and win individual matchups. Spags will at least offer some opportunity to win based on play call. I'm not super optimistic about Spags. I doubt, heavily, that we will be a top 10 defense or anything in coming years. But I am optimistic he can be better. A mid-tier defense would do wonders for us even if the offense steps back. And I'm fine if the blitzes means we give up more big plays than we did with Sutton's conservatism, if it means we get off the field an extra time or two per game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 On 1/26/2019 at 12:22 PM, KManX89 said: Problem is, one or both of those 2 is gonna get wasted in this scheme. Houston is already declining and I don't think Ford will be that productive as a pass rusher in the SAM. The Vikes already tried that with Anthony Barr (who was a pure pass rusher coming out of college) and it failed big time. Not everyone can be a Von Miller and I don't see Ford being that guy. If you think that it has failed with Barr, then I'm not sure what you are watching. While he hasn't put up the stats that people believe he should, it hasn't failed. In fact, some people inside the facility (mainly the head coach) believe he just might be the key to the entire defense, solely because of the things he does do. I even believe he is far more valuable than people believe. And in response to @onejayhawk , I never said there was no talent, I just said there isn't enough. Chris Jones is an elite D-Line player...Dee Ford is pretty good, but outside of that, there isn't much (Justin Houston has fallen way off, and apparently just wanted to cash his paycheck). And that's all I'm saying...I'm not sure how there could be disagreement there. There are lots of significant holes in that defense, since they've been spending all their time on improving the offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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