onejayhawk Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 1 hour ago, swede700 said: If you think that it has failed with Barr, then I'm not sure what you are watching. While he hasn't put up the stats that people believe he should, it hasn't failed. In fact, some people inside the facility (mainly the head coach) believe he just might be the key to the entire defense, solely because of the things he does do. I even believe he is far more valuable than people believe. And in response to @onejayhawk , I never said there was no talent, I just said there isn't enough. Chris Jones is an elite D-Line player...Dee Ford is pretty good, but outside of that, there isn't much (Justin Houston has fallen way off, and apparently just wanted to cash his paycheck). And that's all I'm saying...I'm not sure how there could be disagreement there. There are lots of significant holes in that defense, since they've been spending all their time on improving the offense. I'm saying that you are mistaking talent that is poorly used for talent lacking. Houston is still one of the ten best OLB. Hitchens was a star for Dallas just last year but this scheme does not show him well. The secondary is thin, but even it has talent. Granted, this is not a top defense, but properly coached it is better than average. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swede700 Posted January 28, 2019 Share Posted January 28, 2019 I'm not sure how the argument can be made that Hitchens was a star for Dallas, when he couldn't even start for Dallas consistently. I'll just disagree that the team has top-15 talent on defense, because I see many defenses across the league that have far more talent than the Chiefs, including 2 teams in their own division. It doesn't mean that Sutton didn't do a poor job, because he did, but he also had a significant challenge because he was working with a bunch of players who didn't even fit the scheme they were running. The Chiefs' games I've watched shows a defense that is awfully reminiscent of the 1998 Vikings' defense (ironically paired with a 1998 Vikings' offense as well). A team that has some talent in spots (the Vikings had John Randle, Eddie McDaniel and Robert Griffith), but is severely lacking in talent and depth everywhere else on that defense. You can believe that Hitchens is talented, but, I personally don't believe he is all that talented. He is competent at best, and is far overpaid for his talent and what he delivers. He was inconsistent in Dallas, and he's the same in KC. I wouldn't fully blame Brett Veach for that lack of talent, as I blame Dorsey for it, because he was often over-drafting players, with the most egregious being Tanoh Kpassgnon, who was a 5th-6th round talent that he drafted in the 2nd, but he was there, part of the decision-making process. I think they are fully set on offense and will be competitive for titles for the next few years, but that defense needs an injection of talent on defense...with upgrades needed everywhere around Chris Jones, because, as far as I'm concerned, he's the only "elite" talent, the rest either don't fit the scheme or are "JAG"s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadaluvsdallas Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/28/2019 at 9:13 AM, onejayhawk said: I'm saying that you are mistaking talent that is poorly used for talent lacking. Houston is still one of the ten best OLB. Hitchens was a star for Dallas just last year but this scheme does not show him well. The secondary is thin, but even it has talent. Granted, this is not a top defense, but properly coached it is better than average. J No one has ever said that about Hitchens in the cowboys forum trust me.We even told chiefs fans that he was just going to be solid and expect nothing more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, canadaluvsdallas said: No one has ever said that about Hitchens in the cowboys forum trust me.We even told chiefs fans that he was just going to be solid and expect nothing more. I live in Cowboys country. Don't try and kid me. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadaluvsdallas Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, onejayhawk said: I live in Cowboys country. Don't try and kid me. J Awsome I'm Canadian and I'm a cowboys fan. Let's get to the important topic. He was never a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onejayhawk Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 2 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said: Awsome I'm Canadian and I'm a cowboys fan. Let's get to the important topic. He was never a star. Not in the sense that Lawrence is a star, but yes he was. He was the brains of the defense. I hope the snow is manageable up north. Here, we took the coats out of the closet and checked if there was a scraper in the car. J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canadaluvsdallas Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, onejayhawk said: Not in the sense that Lawrence is a star, but yes he was. He was the brains of the defense. J I respectfully disagree. He had a pretty good rookie season where he was really really solid. But I think he also plateaued and didn't have much more room for potential like LVE & Jaylon Smith does. He was just someone we could put in and not worry about, but I never thought he was star material. Maybe I'm crazy for thinking different but I can get some cowboy forum peeps in here to get their thoughts on hitches and if they feel the same way. @WizardHawk @plan9misfit @DaBoys@D82 @flyingmonkey30 I think it's important to recognize this for the respect of Hitchens. He didn't have that much potential coming into the league in the first place, but he really maxed himself out the best he could given his physical limitations. That gets my respect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D82 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Hitch wasn't a star. He was a guy who played pretty well for the slot he was drafted...but a star? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WizardHawk Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 Probably not a bigger Hitch fan among the Cowboys forum than myself. I was on board with re-signing him and said I'd have released Sean Lee in order to do so. But, I wouldn't have ever labeled him a star for Dallas. A very good and versatile player, yes. But, not a star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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