Jump to content
kingseanjohn

Steve Spagnuolo hired as DC

Recommended Posts

Steve Spagnuolo as defensive coordinator, in points allowed:

Giants: '17-27th, '16-2nd, '15-30th

Saints: '12-31st (a historically bad team, see below)

Giants: '08-5th, '07-17th

So from beginning to end: 5th, 17th, 31st, 30th, 2nd, 27th.

That's his whole career as DC. His second year was good both time at the Giants, otherwise it isn't good. But just how historically bad was that Saints team you may ask?

The Saints defense allowed 7,042 yards in 2012—shattering the Baltimore Colts' 31-year-old record of 6,793 yards.  (Chiefs gave up 6,488 yards this year)

They gave up 28.4 points per game (Chiefs 26.3)

Passing yards per game 292.6 (Chiefs 273.4)

Rushing yards per game 147.6 (Chiefs 132.1)

Getting rid of Sutton was needed. But this hire has the potential to be worse. I hope he can replicate his 2008 and 2016 seasons, but I'm not holding my breath. I feel like Andy went with a friend and someone who had one good game against the Patriots a decade ago.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We have two ready-made DE in Breeland Speaks and Tanoh Kpassagnon. I think Ford has to play LB. Houston can do either. Getting Bailey back would make a big difference.

Of course, the true base D still has 5 DB. IIRC Spagnuolo has had a way with safeties. I suspect we invest a day two pick in one. 

J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, samsel23 said:

I would imagine at least one of Ford or Houston is gone.

or Ford plays some OLB on early downs, having both on the line kills the run game.

This is great news for Breeland and Tanoh though.

Really no reason for that. They'll both just move to DE. They come in at about 250 and 260. At his peak, Spags was starting Tuck and Kiwanuka, at 270 and 260. Not a huge gap. JPP and Vernon were the same, 270 and 260. Speaks is more oversized than Ford is undersized. And 4-3 isn't fundamentally different from what we were running as base anyways. Ran a lot of 2-4-5 nickel. Just call Houston and Ford DEs and it turns into a 4-2-5 nickel.

I'm on the fence on the higher. I really wish Spags had had a longer DC stint somewhere. All of his runs being 1 or 2 years makes judgment difficult. Hard to say if his good years were the result of roster talent, or his bad years were the result of teamwide dysfunction. Maybe some of both. It's weird to see a guy with 3 top 10 defenses and 3 bottom 10 defenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Underwhelming hire imo. Seems like there had to have been somebody with some fresh ideas.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Jakuvious said:

Really no reason for that. They'll both just move to DE. They come in at about 250 and 260. At his peak, Spags was starting Tuck and Kiwanuka, at 270 and 260. Not a huge gap. JPP and Vernon were the same, 270 and 260. Speaks is more oversized than Ford is undersized. And 4-3 isn't fundamentally different from what we were running as base anyways. Ran a lot of 2-4-5 nickel. Just call Houston and Ford DEs and it turns into a 4-2-5 nickel.

I'm on the fence on the higher. I really wish Spags had had a longer DC stint somewhere. All of his runs being 1 or 2 years makes judgment difficult. Hard to say if his good years were the result of roster talent, or his bad years were the result of teamwide dysfunction. Maybe some of both. It's weird to see a guy with 3 top 10 defenses and 3 bottom 10 defenses.

To the bolder part,  they say he’s been stubborn to adjust his scheme when he didn’t have the proper players to fit.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That hire really scares the hell out of me. I'm lacking experience to judge his performances, but if 2016 is the only positive season since he won the Super Bowl, it realy scares the hell out of me. I read he's not making big adjustments, which ultimately draws a scary comparison to Sutton, so overall i'm very, very pessimistic about this hire. I just hope that Reid knows what he's doing.

^^ Copied that from the news thread.

They really have to do a lot to convince me on this hiring. I get the vibe, that in a few years we're looking back at this hire and ask ourselfes why we didn't gave the job to a new guy like Hewitt, Richard or Venables.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He does seem to fit players to the scheme. But, once he gets the players, it rocks.

There is an article at Pride which takes the same tack I did, with a couple of wrinkles. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/1/24/18196643/the-4-3-under-how-the-chiefs-current-personnel-fits

The DL is Ford-Jones-Nnadi-Speaks

LBs are Houston-Hitchens-Do'D

That's a good front 7, though there are depth issues. Houston plays the Olivier Vernon role, which is an ideal fit. Nnadi is perfect for Under Tackle and Jones is ideal for 3-tech. I worry that Ford is not up to hand in the dirt DE, but we'll see

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, samsel23 said:

To the bolder part,  they say he’s been stubborn to adjust his scheme when he didn’t have the proper players to fit.

 

He was successful in 2016 with the Giants, but unsuccessful with a near identical starting roster in 2017. So unless we think the players stopped fitting the scheme in one year, I don't think it can be blamed on that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
34 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

He was successful in 2016 with the Giants, but unsuccessful with a near identical starting roster in 2017. So unless we think the players stopped fitting the scheme in one year, I don't think it can be blamed on that.

Honestly I’m not sure, It’s just what I read.

Im not going to pretend I know a ton about how he calls games, it definitely is odd how his defensive rank.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
59 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

He was successful in 2016 with the Giants, but unsuccessful with a near identical starting roster in 2017. So unless we think the players stopped fitting the scheme in one year, I don't think it can be blamed on that.

The offense was godawful

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hate this, but didnt expect anything less with Reid. Bob Sutton was the most hes ever been outside his comfort zone and he was a Gruden recommendation.

I think weve got the horses to make it work upfront. 43 under really isnt to different from a 34. 

Ford at the LEO is a perfect fit honestly. With his hand in the dirt he should get more leverage, and hell know wjere to lineup and not be offsides hopefully.

Paying Houston a lot to be the SAM though.

Do we sign Landon Collins? Great fit with Spags originally.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

He does seem to fit players to the scheme. But, once he gets the players, it rocks.

There is an article at Pride which takes the same tack I did, with a couple of wrinkles. https://www.arrowheadpride.com/2019/1/24/18196643/the-4-3-under-how-the-chiefs-current-personnel-fits

The DL is Ford-Jones-Nnadi-Speaks

LBs are Houston-Hitchens-Do'D

That's a good front 7, though there are depth issues. Houston plays the Olivier Vernon role, which is an ideal fit. Nnadi is perfect for Under Tackle and Jones is ideal for 3-tech. I worry that Ford is not up to hand in the dirt DE, but we'll see

J

 

I saw that article and i just don't see it. I think Hitchens, O'Daniel and Speaks will be perfect. But i just dont think Dee Ford is strong enough, at the point of attack to be a true, hand in the dirt DE. As far as Houston at the Sam, i think thats even more ridiculous. You're telling me you want the slower OLB with a suspect knee to be the guy playing in space now?! I understand the 4-3 under allows the Sam to rush a little more but at some point, the Sam has to be able to play in space. For a 4-3 to truly flourish, you NEED athletic, fast flow, gap filling LBs. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I understand concerns about Dee Ford playing 3-point DE. That seems more Justin Houston. That said, most of the snaps won't be 3-point. 

J

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

From Giants fans:

@minutemancl

There were 5 defensive All-Pros on that team. DRC, Jackrabbit, Vernon, Snacks, and Collins.

I'm happy for Spagnuolo the person. Players love him and he's a really good guy. The media will love him too. However, as a DC, he is too rigid in his schemes to be successful in today's NFL, and the statistics back that up. When he has the perfect personnel to run his defense, and everyone is on the same page, it turns out well. But anything less than perfect circumstances and he fields historically bad defenses, especially in the passing game

@TheLBC

He's the DC equivalent of Jeff Fisher as a HC or Mike McCoy as an OC - he's stubborn, dated in his approach, and by and large opposing coaches have figured out his system, how to beat it, and in that vein his playcalling becomes pretty dang predictable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now



×