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23 minutes ago, beardown3231 said:

Pace said RRH could be used at OLB. Interesting.

Just sign an OLB.

Although more reps for RRH is a good thing. He is good.

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52 minutes ago, WindyCity said:

Just sign an OLB.

Although more reps for RRH is a good thing. He is good.

Thing is though, he bulked up to play on the Dline. Does he have the explosión and agility to be an edge rusher?

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That's a good question Jim.  These are his Pro Day results and now we can combine them with what we've seen on the field in the regular season.

His 6'6, 255 pound stature has stood out ever since he put on a pair of pads, but on Thursday NFL hopeful, and former Miner defensive end Roy Robertson-Harris stood out for a handful of NFL scouts at UTEP's Pro Day in the Sun Bowl.

Robertson-Harris, posted a 4.8 second 40-yard dash time, 23 repetitions on the bench press, a 7.0 time in the 3-cone drill, a 4.27 time in the 5-10-5 short shuttle and a 35-inch vertical leap.  He also took some field work reps as an outside linebacker for the 49ers.

Those times, and numbers would have placed him in the top-10 at the defensive line spot in the recent NFL Combine.

Here's my thoughts.

He came in at age 23 at 255lbs and spent 2016 sidelined by an illness.

In 2017 he'd added another inch of height and 30lbs and was moved DE.

In 2018 he added another 10lbs to play DE at 295lbs and was even more successful.

While RRH isn't quite the athletic freak of Julius Peppers or Mario Williams he's not all that far behind them.  At UTEP he chased a RB 60 yards downfield and tackled him to prevent a score and it probably wasn't the only time he'd done it.

I think the bigger question is where is he more valuable or is it possible or could he play both positions at weights ranging from 285lbs to 295lbs as Pep did when he moved north to GB and provide depth at both DE and OLB/Edge?

If he hasn't seen a huge drop in his number since his pro day I'd say it's likely he could rush as an OLB.  He's damn hard to block even has a DE and should be even harder to block with a running start as a stand up rusher.  The guy is a beast and someone we should be looking to keep IMHO.

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3 hours ago, soulman said:

That's a good question Jim.  These are his Pro Day results and now we can combine them with what we've seen on the field in the regular season.

His 6'6, 255 pound stature has stood out ever since he put on a pair of pads, but on Thursday NFL hopeful, and former Miner defensive end Roy Robertson-Harris stood out for a handful of NFL scouts at UTEP's Pro Day in the Sun Bowl.

Robertson-Harris, posted a 4.8 second 40-yard dash time, 23 repetitions on the bench press, a 7.0 time in the 3-cone drill, a 4.27 time in the 5-10-5 short shuttle and a 35-inch vertical leap.  He also took some field work reps as an outside linebacker for the 49ers.

Those times, and numbers would have placed him in the top-10 at the defensive line spot in the recent NFL Combine.

Here's my thoughts.

He came in at age 23 at 255lbs and spent 2016 sidelined by an illness.

In 2017 he'd added another inch of height and 30lbs and was moved DE.

In 2018 he added another 10lbs to play DE at 295lbs and was even more successful.

While RRH isn't quite the athletic freak of Julius Peppers or Mario Williams he's not all that far behind them.  At UTEP he chased a RB 60 yards downfield and tackled him to prevent a score and it probably wasn't the only time he'd done it.

I think the bigger question is where is he more valuable or is it possible or could he play both positions at weights ranging from 285lbs to 295lbs as Pep did when he moved north to GB and provide depth at both DE and OLB/Edge?

If he hasn't seen a huge drop in his number since his pro day I'd say it's likely he could rush as an OLB.  He's damn hard to block even has a DE and should be even harder to block with a running start as a stand up rusher.  The guy is a beast and someone we should be looking to keep IMHO.

I think just from a body mass & weight point of view he shouldn't be any heavier than 275 for an OLB. I know Mack can toss tackles to the ground at 255-260 but he is as strong as a bull. It is an intreaguing development to say the least. But we already have one example of position switching with Nagy and that was to put Coward on O as a lineman, which is a totally different phase.

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4 hours ago, malagabears said:

I think just from a body mass & weight point of view he shouldn't be any heavier than 275 for an OLB. I know Mack can toss tackles to the ground at 255-260 but he is as strong as a bull. It is an intreaguing development to say the least. But we already have one example of position switching with Nagy and that was to put Coward on O as a lineman, which is a totally different phase.

If we were gonna play him full time at OLB I'd tend to agree although Pep was still playing OLB at 285-290lbs with GB.

But as a spot Edge Rusher I don't think it would matter as much as long as he still retained his burst and athleticism.

RRH is more of a bull rusher so he's not a guy whose gonna beat an OT around the edge very often but I've watched him push through a double team of blockers to get at the QB from his DE spot.  He can flat out beat OGs with his size and leverage.

Give him a running start and like Mack I believe he could manhandle some OTs and just walk 'em back into the QB like old Doug Atkins used to do.  From what I've seen so far RRH has a lot of power and is tough to keep blocked inside.  How well he can translate turning speed into power off the edge as Mack can do we won't know 'til we see him in a position to do it.

It wouldn't shock me at all to see Pagano try him as a stand up rusher at times just to see how well he can handle it.  Keeping him on the field more should be a plus for the defense. 

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3 hours ago, soulman said:

If we were gonna play him full time at OLB I'd tend to agree although Pep was still playing OLB at 285-290lbs with GB.

But as a spot Edge Rusher I don't think it would matter as much as long as he still retained his burst and athleticism.

RRH is more of a bull rusher so he's not a guy whose gonna beat an OT around the edge very often but I've watched him push through a double team of blockers to get at the QB from his DE spot.  He can flat out beat OGs with his size and leverage.

Give him a running start and like Mack I believe he could manhandle some OTs and just walk 'em back into the QB like old Doug Atkins used to do.  From what I've seen so far RRH has a lot of power and is tough to keep blocked inside.  How well he can translate turning speed into power off the edge as Mack can do we won't know 'til we see him in a position to do it.

It wouldn't shock me at all to see Pagano try him as a stand up rusher at times just to see how well he can handle it.  Keeping him on the field more should be a plus for the defense. 

McPhee was a fatty OLB for the Ravens D too, and that worked for him.

I could see this - imagine hicks and goldman or nichols in a stance and then RRH and Mack standing - Mack doing his moves and RRH bull rushing, then throw a stunt in their to free up someone like Floyd or Quan. IIRC the Ravens did a lot where their front 7 would all stand up and move around to confuse the offensive line - so something like this

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16 minutes ago, HuskieBear said:

McPhee was a fatty OLB for the Ravens D too, and that worked for him.

I could see this - imagine hicks and goldman or nichols in a stance and then RRH and Mack standing - Mack doing his moves and RRH bull rushing, then throw a stunt in their to free up someone like Floyd or Quan. IIRC the Ravens did a lot where their front 7 would all stand up and move around to confuse the offensive line - so something like this

Yep, he was about 285-290lbs when he arrived then cut his weight back to around 270-275lbs because of his bad knees.  But McPhee was only 6'3" whereas RRH is 6'7" like Peppers was so he has far more of the length we like in a OLB or a pass rushing DL.

If RRH can handle rushing from a two point stance he adds some versatility to what we can do with our DL and it will make him more valuable when it's time to talk about a new deal.  If he takes another step upward this season he should become a guy we won't want to lose in FA.

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49 minutes ago, soulman said:

Yep, he was about 285-290lbs when he arrived then cut his weight back to around 270-275lbs because of his bad knees.  But McPhee was only 6'3" whereas RRH is 6'7" like Peppers was so he has far more of the length we like in a OLB or a pass rushing DL.

If RRH can handle rushing from a two point stance he adds some versatility to what we can do with our DL and it will make him more valuable when it's time to talk about a new deal.  If he takes another step upward this season he should become a guy we won't want to lose in FA.

In an instance like this you could move Floyd over to ILB as he covers pretty well and is also pretty against the run.

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42 minutes ago, malagabears said:

In an instance like this you could move Floyd over to ILB as he covers pretty well and is also pretty against the run.

Under Fangio the Bears rushed four a lot so you could play Mack and RRH as outside rushers and drop 3 LBs into coverage against some looks but with Pagano using more blitzing you also have an option to blitz any one of the three.  So RRH's ability to play out of a two point stance adds another look and more unpredictability to a more typical 4-3 front seven especially with Smith's ability to rush on a delayed blitz.

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Posted (edited)
22 hours ago, malagabears said:

Thing is though, he bulked up to play on the Dline. Does he have the explosión and agility to be an edge rusher?

Depending on role, he wouldn't need to be. Even bulked up he has better burst than McPhee or Houston ever did, so he can move and use power there. The thing is, if he is left in space as a zone defender he is going to likely be a fish out of water, but I don't want to rush him due to limitations and then drop Mack into coverage. 

 

As an OLB, I would prefer if he was a stand-up rusher or sub DE in nickel. 

 

I could see the nickel's 4 man rush being: Mack - Hicks - Nichols - RRH.  

 

I'd be fine with three being on the DL and Mack blitzing from anywhere he chooses, get him in more favorable and unpredictable match ups.

Edited by Sugashane

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On 3/26/2019 at 1:21 PM, soulman said:

But remember Acho started 12 games in 2017.  The last time he put up numbers like that was in 2012 when he started all 16 games. 

In four seasons with Chicago he has only 4 sacks and 25 hits total most of those coming in 2017.

I'd love to see Acho return on a vet minimum deal or something close to that but I feel we'd still need a younger #3 guy like a Lynch or Marsh.

That’s why I posted their snap counts. 2017 Acho had less sacks per snap than 2918 Kynch but their QB hits per snap were essentially the same, and Lynch by way of playing for a 12-4 team vs. a 5-11 team probably benefitted from more frequent optimal pass rush situations too. I’m not saying this to knock Lynch I’m saying it because I don’t think Acho is a significantly lesser option at all. If either is our #3 OLB we still need to add IMO. 

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If we can sign Marsh to a 2-3 year deal like Windy proposes at 2M or 3M per year with incentives that would be ideal. I think either Fitts or Irving have some upside to round out the rotation.

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3 hours ago, AZBearsFan said:

That’s why I posted their snap counts. 2017 Acho had less sacks per snap than 2918 Kynch but their QB hits per snap were essentially the same, and Lynch by way of playing for a 12-4 team vs. a 5-11 team probably benefitted from more frequent optimal pass rush situations too. I’m not saying this to knock Lynch I’m saying it because I don’t think Acho is a significantly lesser option at all. If either is our #3 OLB we still need to add IMO. 

If we absolutely need a vet OLB and no other options exist maybe Acho returns but from watching both play Lynch appeared to be the better of the two and much younger.   IMHO that's the direction we need to be going in and quite possible using RRH more as an Edge Rusher.

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The thing is we are getting so close to the draft now that some of these lower tier FAs might wait until after the draft is over before picking which team to go to. Nothing would be worse than signing a deal to be a fringe starter, than having a team spend a high draft pick on your position, which might almost immediately move you down a notch on the depth chart

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