SSG Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said: I wonder if his 5.6 targets per game and single digit redzone targets might have something to do with the fact he was only catching 3.5 balls per game? That's from one game. There's 50 yards easily left on the table here, from one game. https://imgur.com/ldj8AUW https://imgur.com/1Mq9rbj Also, good golly, you're not going to believe this. In week's 1-9: Graham was at 33/439/2 Per 16 Games: 59/780/4 In week's 10-16: Graham was at 22/197/0 50/450/0 I wonder if something happened that would cause such a dramatic production difference, some kind of injury perhaps? Oh right, he broke his ******* thumb!!! I know AG30. Everything is Rodgers fault. He makes a lot of money so he should be able to make every player into an all world player. Heck, Jimmy Graham was 9 yard per catch TE who needed over 95 targets to accumulate 500 yard just a season ago but now he's suddenly being held back by Aaron Rodgers who's being made out to be a putrid QB incapable of running an offense effectively. Blaming the thumb is chicken ****. It's not like he was dropping a bunch of balls. His thumb had nothing to do with his inability to get open. Sure he was missed on occasion but for the most part he struggled at getting any sort of separation. I don't know why his production dropped but I personally believe it had NOTHING to do with his thumb. Might be that as the season wore on that he ended up being the mediocre, broken down TE he looked to be in Seattle the year before. Whether it was week 1 where he was basically or week 16 a game where he was complexity irrelevant he was terrible for the majority of the season. It's no wonder the offense was held to 7 or fewer points for 10 halves of football when we're getting that sort of production from our offense's #2 target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexGreen#20 Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 20 minutes ago, SSG said: I know AG30. Everything is Rodgers fault. He makes a lot of money so he should be able to make every player into an all world player. Heck, Jimmy Graham was 9 yard per catch TE who needed over 95 targets to accumulate 500 yard just a season ago but now he's suddenly being held back by Aaron Rodgers who's being made out to be a putrid QB incapable of running an offense effectively. Blaming the thumb is chicken ****. It's not like he was dropping a bunch of balls. His thumb had nothing to do with his inability to get open. Sure he was missed on occasion but for the most part he struggled at getting any sort of separation. I don't know why his production dropped but I personally believe it had NOTHING to do with his thumb. Might be that as the season wore on that he ended up being the mediocre, broken down TE he looked to be in Seattle the year before. Whether it was week 1 where he was basically or week 16 a game where he was complexity irrelevant he was terrible for the majority of the season. It's no wonder the offense was held to 7 or fewer points for 10 halves of football when we're getting that sort of production from our offense's #2 target. Never said everything was Rodgers fault, but the man was an average QB this year who only threw to Davante Adams. Davante Adams got 169 targets this year. Graham was second place on the team with 89. MVS was 3rd with 73. Your #2 target isn't going to have great production if you only target him 89 times. Davante was almost double the next closest target. Now compare that to 2017 where Adams was at 117, Cobb was at 92, and Nelson was at 88. There's a little bit of balance. Regarding the thumb, there's an obvious drop off in production. There's a logical reason for the drop in production (you don't throw to a TE with a broken thumb as much and ask him to run different routes so he's not catching over his shoulder). That's a logical conclusion to draw. If you're going to tell me Graham's thumb being broken is a chicken **** excuse, I better not hear a ******* word about Rodgers' knee being a problem ever. And yeah, screw Graham for being the perfect possession TE in seattle with 32 1st downs (9th) and 10 TDs (1st). He definitely lost all that ability when he came to GB and it had nothing to do with the fact that he had more TDs last year than he did redzone targets this year. A TE who is 8th in the league in 1st downs and 9th in the league in yardage is not irrelevant, no matter how badly you want it to be true and no matter how many times you repeat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 10 hours ago, AlexGreen#20 said: Never said everything was Rodgers fault, but the man was an average QB this year who only threw to Davante Adams. Davante Adams got 169 targets this year. Graham was second place on the team with 89. MVS was 3rd with 73. Your #2 target isn't going to have great production if you only target him 89 times. Davante was almost double the next closest target. Now compare that to 2017 where Adams was at 117, Cobb was at 92, and Nelson was at 88. There's a little bit of balance. Regarding the thumb, there's an obvious drop off in production. There's a logical reason for the drop in production (you don't throw to a TE with a broken thumb as much and ask him to run different routes so he's not catching over his shoulder). That's a logical conclusion to draw. If you're going to tell me Graham's thumb being broken is a chicken **** excuse, I better not hear a ******* word about Rodgers' knee being a problem ever. And yeah, screw Graham for being the perfect possession TE in seattle with 32 1st downs (9th) and 10 TDs (1st). He definitely lost all that ability when he came to GB and it had nothing to do with the fact that he had more TDs last year than he did redzone targets this year. A TE who is 8th in the league in 1st downs and 9th in the league in yardage is not irrelevant, no matter how badly you want it to be true and no matter how many times you repeat it. Was there ever an issue with Nelson getting 150+ targets in a season? He did so on multiple occasions with a loaded WR core but now Rodgers is suddenly broken when he targeted Adams 169 times when the WR core is devastated by injuries and lean on talent. Not sure 2017 is all that great of an example given that it wasn't an Aaron Rodgers lead offense and it was terrible. A "perfect" possession TE? That's Richard Rodgers (not perfect but a cheap possession TE) and Graham isn't paid to be a Richard Rodgers caliber of TE. He's being paid to be an elite difference maker. Over the last 2 seasons JG's been a 3.5 catch, 36 yard per game TE who's seen on average of of 760 offensive snaps per season. In the only season Richard Rodgers seen close to 700 (675) regular season snaps in the Green Bay offense he was a 3.5 catch, 31 yard per game TE (with 8 TDs). It's crazy how different the standards are for Graham. If 3.5 catches and 36 yards is "perfect" we should have just kept Rodgers for a small fraction of the money JG is "earning". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 15 minutes ago, SSG said: Was there ever an issue with Nelson getting 150+ targets in a season? Isn't that kind of the point? When Nelson was getting all of the targets, he also had Cobb in 2014, and Adams in 2016 that were in the 120 range for targets. Wasn't the problem this last year not having a viable #2 WR to threaten the defense as well? 17 minutes ago, SSG said: If 3.5 catches and 36 yards is "perfect" we should have just kept Rodgers for a small fraction of the money JG is "earning". As has been said before, he was ninth for tight ends in yds and targets. Is the problem you see how much he is paid? Would you advocate cutting him if he was making the vet minimum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 4 minutes ago, Ragnar Danneskjold said: Isn't that kind of the point? When Nelson was getting all of the targets, he also had Cobb in 2014, and Adams in 2016 that were in the 120 range for targets. Wasn't the problem this last year not having a viable #2 WR to threaten the defense as well? As has been said before, he was ninth for tight ends in yds and targets. Is the problem you see how much he is paid? Would you advocate cutting him if he was making the vet minimum? I had that problem since day 1. It's why Adams got 169 targets. I felt talent at pass catcher was going to be a huge problem the second we cut Nelson without replacing him. A lack of talent at WR was a reason I advocated for signing Dez Bryant this last offseason. We needed high end production from Graham and he simply isn't capable of anything more than mediocrity. I don't care much about where he ranked in the league among TEs. That has more to do with opportunity than quality play IMO. The majority of the TEs who had comparable production were their team's #3 or #4 target. I find it hard to be impressed with what I feel is Richard Rodgers type of production. The damage has already been done with the terrible contract. I'm not advocating for cutting him this season, rather drafting his eventual replacement. Some have no interest in drafting a TE and would rather continue to bring in league's old broken retreads on the cheap. Given the large amount of dead money still there in his deal it doesn't make sense cutting him regardless of his production. We're unfortunately stuck paying him like he's one of the 4 or 5 best players in the NFL but that doesn't mean we've got to continue to ignore the future of the position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ragnar Danneskjold Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 1 hour ago, SSG said: I had that problem since day 1. It's why Adams got 169 targets. I felt talent at pass catcher was going to be a huge problem the second we cut Nelson without replacing him. A lack of talent at WR was a reason I advocated for signing Dez Bryant this last offseason. We needed high end production from Graham and he simply isn't capable of anything more than mediocrity. I don't care much about where he ranked in the league among TEs. That has more to do with opportunity than quality play IMO. The majority of the TEs who had comparable production were their team's #3 or #4 target. I find it hard to be impressed with what I feel is Richard Rodgers type of production. The damage has already been done with the terrible contract. I'm not advocating for cutting him this season, rather drafting his eventual replacement. Some have no interest in drafting a TE and would rather continue to bring in league's old broken retreads on the cheap. Given the large amount of dead money still there in his deal it doesn't make sense cutting him regardless of his production. We're unfortunately stuck paying him like he's one of the 4 or 5 best players in the NFL but that doesn't mean we've got to continue to ignore the future of the position. Ok, that makes sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted January 31, 2019 Share Posted January 31, 2019 I like everything you did after Lindstrom. Parker Hesse is a draftable player BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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