CWood21 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, Leader said: Lets look at that a different way shall we? Perhaps with our new coach and coaching philosophy - he'll be able to impose on Mr. AR that he's one of 11 guys on offense and his putting training wheels on every rookie WR/TE is actually hurting the offense. Ya think? Perhaps? Maybe? I see other teams throwing to rookie WRs/TEs and their offense doesnt seem to be falling off the face of the earth. Why do with have to discount the first years of these guys contract - because AR doesnt "trust" them? Only in Green Bay is this remotely accepted. I'm hopeful, but I'm also going to take a page from packfanfb's playbook and be pessimistic. But let's say we use a 2nd round pick on a WR, what position are we not using a top 45 pick on? Cornerback? Safety? EDGE? OL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, CWood21 said: I'm hopeful, but I'm also going to take a page from packfanfb's playbook and be pessimistic. But let's say we use a 2nd round pick on a WR, what position are we not using a top 45 pick on? Cornerback? Safety? EDGE? OL? No problem. I've been down this road before and I'm not calling for GB to draft anybody anywhere. I'll live with whatever they decide. I was simply speaking to this "AR doesnt trust them and so he doesnt throw them the ball and leads the league in throwaways" concept. I think it a ridiculous concept. Amazed he (apparently) has been getting away with it all these years - cause he's actually hurting the offense and those players development. Is our rookie coach going to impose mandates on AR that MM apparently was unable to do? Dont know / cant say / have doubts - but somebody needs to. IMO. Other teams incorporate that talent level into their offenses. Proof positive it can be done to good effect. Only - not when AR's involved? Stupid IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, CWood21 said: When will people understand that Rodgers isn't suddenly going to decide to throw to a young WR simply because they're a 2nd round pick? This is a myth used to put 100% of the blame for this season solely on the shoulder of the QB. Up until this year, this offense never needed rookie WRs to contribute. Of the rookie WRs over the last 7 years Adams was the most involved. His rookie year Rodgers won a MVP, we had the #1 scoring offense in the league and two pro bowl WRs. You are telling me that Rodgers decided not to throw it to Adams that year when he was open because he was young? That's ridiculous. Rodgers has had absolutely no issues throwing the ball to talented WRs. The list of productive WRs to come through Green Bay is long. Of the guys who were drafted not one ended up going on else where and developing. Maybe it's a talent issue and not a "Rodgers not throwing the ball to WRs because they are young" issue. It's the Jeff Janis conversation all over again. "Rodgers holding him back because he refused to throw him the ball". The same Janis who is now not good enough to make a NFL roster after leaving Green Bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 18 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm hopeful, but I'm also going to take a page from packfanfb's playbook and be pessimistic. But let's say we use a 2nd round pick on a WR, what position are we not using a top 45 pick on? Cornerback? Safety? EDGE? OL? So are we drafting based on need now? Ideally we navigate the board to get positions of need that fall in value, but if we stay put at 45 and a WR is clearly the best player, do you draft a lower tier safety or edge? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, JBURGE said: So are we drafting based on need now? Ideally we navigate the board to get positions of need that fall in value, but if we stay put at 45 and a WR is clearly the best player, do you draft a lower tier safety or edge? Why you using that logic in the discussion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 22 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: Over the past thirty years, there have been 122 receivers drafted in the second round. MVS had more receptions than 86 of those second round receivers. MVS had more receiving yards than 94 of those second round receivers. He had more yards per reception than 95 of those second round receivers. It's not time for ****. We already got our second round receiver, except we did it in the 5th round of last year's draft, and you have to seriously stop freaking out about receiver. MVS did all that with the "inept offensive McCarthy" and a WR coach that Rodgers allegedly said flat out, "you don't know what you're doing." This receiver drama has got to stop. MVS played 691 snaps, 64% of our offensive snaps as a rookie, and that's with playing 20 total snaps in the first 3 weeks. I am not sure because I don't care to do the research, but I would hazard a guess that most of those 122 receivers drafted did not play that much. Also, I would say that information about rookie WR seasons from 1989 to 2000 don't have a ton of relevance to today's NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, Apex said: I remember when some people were all for running Devonte Adams out of town after his first couple of years. I think letting MVS and ESB continue to develop is the way to go. Besides a rookie wr isn't coming in and making an impact on the offense unless they are of the Megatron or Julio Jones caliber. No one has talked about running anyone out of town but it's dangerous to assume that every WR we roster is going to develop into an Adams caliber WR when our success rate with late round WRs is terrible. Over the last couple years we've seen multiple rookie WRs have really good years and not one of them was a Megatron or Julio Jones caliber of WR. JuJu Smith-Schuster, Cooper Kupp, Michael Thomas, Stefan Diggs.....none of them were top 5 NFL pick prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 26 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm hopeful, but I'm also going to take a page from packfanfb's playbook and be pessimistic. But let's say we use a 2nd round pick on a WR, what position are we not using a top 45 pick on? Cornerback? Safety? EDGE? OL? Looks like someone is trying to cover a lot of bases here Quote On 1/20/2019 at 10:44 PM, CWood21 said: You can't fix a roster overnight. Hell, it takes 2-3 offseasons before you can restock the cupboard. The Saints '15-'17 draft is what revamped the Saints. The '10-'12 class is what put the Seahawks on the map. If you're expecting any GM to fix a roster in a single offseason, you're not looking at this realistically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 minute ago, squire12 said: Looks like someone is trying to cover a lot of bases here Quote On 1/20/2019 at 10:44 PM, CWood21 said: You can't fix a roster overnight. Hell, it takes 2-3 offseasons before you can restock the cupboard. The Saints '15-'17 draft is what revamped the Saints. The '10-'12 class is what put the Seahawks on the map. If you're expecting any GM to fix a roster in a single offseason, you're not looking at this realistically. What about our 2017-2019 drafts if we nail this one? 2017 looks shady because King can't stay healthy, Josh Jones is struggling, Montravius hasn't made that step. If two of those guys end up being + starters, add in Jamaal and Aaron Jones and that's a solid draft. 2018 looks like we got a potentially all-pro corner, Josh Jackson who was raw and has hope (I still don't like him), and potentially two starting WRs, and Lancaster as an UDFA If 2019 is a great draft, doesn't have to be as good as the Saints or Cowboys mega drafts this decade, how is that @CWood21 ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 38 minutes ago, Cheech said: I'm working under the assumption that we're going to add a TE in the draft (at 30 or 44) that can stretch the field. That, and I think I'm more optimistic about MVS and EQ than you likely are. I see MVS being used a lot like Brandin Cooks with his ability to stretch the field but also his ability to threaten the edges on end-arounds. Kupp is a better receiver than EQ, but I do believe that EQ can play a similar role in the GB offense. Probably. It's hard for me to ignore how useless MVS was to the offense from week 11 to week 15. He was absolutely horrid. I don't understand the hype surrounding EQ. I seen nothing last year that would suggest that he's going to develop into a starting caliber WR next year. Kupp was a substantially more talented and more polished WR coming out of college. MVS has a long, long, long way to go as a route runner before we can start using him in the same manner the LAR uses Cooks. He can run straight fast and not much more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 14 minutes ago, SSG said: This is a myth used to put 100% of the blame for this season solely on the shoulder of the QB. Up until this year, this offense never needed rookie WRs to contribute. Of the rookie WRs over the last 7 years Adams was the most involved. His rookie year Rodgers won a MVP, we had the #1 scoring offense in the league and two pro bowl WRs. You are telling me that Rodgers decided not to throw it to Adams that year when he was open because he was young? That's ridiculous. Rodgers has had absolutely no issues throwing the ball to talented WRs. The list of productive WRs to come through Green Bay is long. Of the guys who were drafted not one ended up going on else where and developing. Maybe it's a talent issue and not a "Rodgers not throwing the ball to WRs because they are young" issue. It's the Jeff Janis conversation all over again. "Rodgers holding him back because he refused to throw him the ball". The same Janis who is now not good enough to make a NFL roster after leaving Green Bay. It literally isn't a myth. Find me the last time a rookie WR was top 2 in targets for the Packers with Rodgers as the starting QB. I'll do it for you, there was none. The last time the Packers had a rookie WR receive the 2nd most targets was back in 2006 when Greg Jennings caught 69 less balls than Donald Driver with Brett Favre throwing to him. In Davante Adams' rookie year, he finished 3rd in targets behind Jordy Nelson and Randall Cobb at 66 targets. Ty Montgomery in his rookie year had 19 targets, which was 4th among WRs behind Davante Adams, James Jones, and Randall Cobb. MVS just finished the year with 73 targets, which was god for 3rd on the team. It's not a myth. It's a long standing thing that's been discussed ad nauseam. I'm not blaming solely Rodgers, because the truth is probably closer to somewhere in the middle. Rookie WRs are going to make mistakes in their route running. That's just a fact. And Rodgers is the anti-Favre in that he won't give his WRs the opportunity to make a play. Rookie WRs aren't going to step in and be a clear #2 WR. Go watch all the GIFs by Ben Fennell from early in the year. We saw MVS get wide open, and Rodgers refused to throw him the ball. When the Packers get in the RZ, Rodgers locks onto Davante Adams. I'm hopeful LaFleur can change that, but based on what we saw this year I'm not expecting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 13 minutes ago, squire12 said: Looks like someone is trying to cover a lot of bases here It was a rhetorical question. LIS, you can't fix every position in a single offseason. You can patch them up hoping that they won't sink your boat, but there's always something that needs to be fixed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 I was thinking it might be a highly drafted TE instead of WR... as we hope last year WR rookies develop into something this year.... and maybe grab a WR from else where, say Cole Beasley, who does a great job getting open and the Cowboys don't use him that much... and Rodgers likes it when his receivers can lose the defender and that's what Beasley does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 40 minutes ago, CWood21 said: I'm hopeful, but I'm also going to take a page from packfanfb's playbook and be pessimistic. But let's say we use a 2nd round pick on a WR, what position are we not using a top 45 pick on? Cornerback? Safety? EDGE? OL? We've wasted multiple top 64 picks on DBs in 3 of the last 4 years (6 of the 8 picks) with nothing to show for it. It's time that we stop blowing premiere draft picks on the position and start addressing them in Free Agency. Continuing to ignore other positions with our premier picks in favor of DBs and only DBs is a large reason this team is as awful as it is. The amount of premier draft assets we've tossed at DBs over the last 4 years is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted January 30, 2019 Share Posted January 30, 2019 12 minutes ago, CWood21 said: It was a rhetorical question. LIS, you can't fix every position in a single offseason. You can patch them up hoping that they won't sink your boat, but there's always something that needs to be fixed. Correct, so if the best player by value and grading tiers is a WR at pick #44, why do you not go that route? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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