Second Round WR - It’s Time

[Gopackgonerd]

5 hours ago, Outpost31 said:

Over the past thirty years, there have been 122 receivers drafted in the second round. 

MVS had more receptions than 86 of those second round receivers.

MVS had more receiving yards than 94 of those second round receivers. 

He had more yards per reception than 95 of those second round receivers. 

It's not time for ****.  We already got our second round receiver, except we did it in the 5th round of last year's draft, and you have to seriously stop freaking out about receiver. 

MVS did all that with the "inept offensive McCarthy" and a WR coach that Rodgers allegedly said flat out, "you don't know what you're doing." 

This receiver drama has got to stop. 

Also Rodgers overthrew MVS like 4 or 5 times deep last year when he was wide open, he could of gotten even more yards.

[SSG]

6 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

Player A: 53 receptions, 879 receiving yards, 6 TD receptions
Player B: 71 receptions, 919 receiving yards, 10 TD receptions
Player C: 63 receptions, 761 receiving yards, 7 TD receptions
Player D: 53 receptions, 857 receiving yards 9 TD receptions

Care to guess who those players are?  Player A is MVS, Player B is Christian Kirk, Player C is Dante Pettis, and Player D is DaeSean Hamilton.  Now, look at who was throwing to those players.  DaeSean Hamilton had Trace McSorley throwing to him.  Dante Pettis had Jake Browning throwing to him.  And Christian Kirk had Kellen Mond and Nick Starkel throwing to him.  In terms of QBs, Flowers is closer to Mond/Starkel than he is McSorley or Browning.  Neither McSorley or Browning are anything special, but they're not RBs masquerading as QBs.  MVS was a HUGE question mark in terms of his ability to play WR, because he wasn't running a very diverse route tree and he never worked with a legitimate QB.  If you don't think playing with Flowers hurt MVS, I don't know what to tell you.

And Kirk was viewed as the safer, more NFL-ready prospect of the two, which I don't think anyone would disagree with.  But in terms of upside, there isn't that much there.  If you want to take Kirk's upside, go right ahead.  I wouldn't agree with it.

This isn't going anywhere.  It's kind of funny that we're again blaming his lack of production on another QB.  Flowers wasn't great but he's also no where near as bad as you are making him out to be.  He also wasn't his only college QB.  MVS wasn't any more impressive at NCState with Jacoby Brissett as his QB.  I'd point out that Pettis, Hamilton and Kirk were all substantially more productive over their entire college careers and none of them had the benefit of playing in the terrible ACC where he very rarely had to worry about NFL talent lining up across from him.

Kirk was viewed as a different tier prospect. I wouldn't be at all surprised if most the league viewed MVS a practice squad or undrafted Free Agent caliber of prospect. 

[SSG]

24 minutes ago, CWood21 said:

So...because the Browns stupidly used a 2nd round pick on a QB the year before they shouldn't take a QB the next year if they thought he was a franchise QB?  There's literally no argument to make here.  You don't draft with the assumption you're picking a bust.  You draft with the intention of getting a hit.  And getting a hit at arguably the most important position in ALL of professional sports stands to be the biggest part.  DeShone Kizer was picked 52nd btw, which wouldn't constitute a high 2nd round pick fwiw.  The Browns had THREE different opportunities to draft Kizer, and it wasn't until their 4th pick they did so.  That tells me that they didn't view him that highly, they just thought he was too good of value to not take that gamble in the 2nd round.

It's mind boggling to me that you're sitting here criticizing the Browns for taking Baker Mayfield simply because they took DeShone Kizer the year before.  Absolutely mind boggling.

You are the one that used them as example of bad drafting.  My point is that it's terrible management to continue to spend your high picks on the same position group year after year after year.  But again, maybe I'm wrong and the fact that this team hasn't resembled anything close to a playoff team over the last 2 seasons is just a coincident.  Given the way Detroit crushed our skull last year it's pretty safe to say we're a lot closer to being the bottom feeder in the NFCN than a team that's going to compete for a playoff bid.  

It's funny that Kizer was viewed as a future star not long ago on this very Packer board but now in hindsight it's viewed as a stupid mistake by Cleveland to draft him.  The same Kizer whom our front office was supposedly infatuated with during that 2017 draft.  A guy whom they supposedly contemplated taking over King. 

[66fan]

I am guessing Preston Wiliams will be on our roster. Either later round draft pick or UDFA.

[squire12]

16 minutes ago, 66fan said:

I am guessing Preston Wiliams will be on our roster. Either later round draft pick or UDFA.

Grabbed him in my mock a few weeks ago.  Lots to like and fits the body type of the recent WR draft picks.

[chillparsi1]

7 hours ago, CWood21 said:

When will people understand that Rodgers isn't suddenly going to decide to throw to a young WR simply because they're a 2nd round pick?

I think this argument can be twisted to be in favor of drafting one this year. We have a #1, but since AR takes so long to meld with guys we need to set about looking for his successor sooner rather than later. 

[Dubz41]

It wasn't just Rodgers.  MMs offense didn't really cater to 'next man up'.  Early on? Maybe, but the last three/four years it just seemed to clog up.

Fresh start with MLF.  I don't think WR is very high on the list.  ESB and MVS with one year under their belt with Allison coming back will compliment Adams well.

Nobody's even giving J'mon Moore a sniff and I'm still thinking that he benefits the most with a new coach.  Wait and see, but I don't feel we will address WR before round 4.

[Scoremore]

If WR is the BPA with the 2nd rounder fine so be it.  You take the player.  WR is a lot lower on the priority list as far as I am concerned.  Nobody mentioned DJ Moore.  He was the first WR taken.  Granted he didn't show anything last year but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bust either.  Maybe the light bulb comes on for the kid and he has a good season.  Also mentioning the 2018 class no one talks about Burks.  Kid has talent and can become a player.  Draft and develop.  Some guys take longer.  Personally no compelling need to take a WR IMO.  RG, DT, OLB, TE, and S are all more urgent needs.

[Beast]

18 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

Nobody mentioned DJ Moore.  He was the first WR taken.  Granted he didn't show anything last year but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bust either.  

Did you mean Panthers DJ Moore or Packers J'Mon Moore?

DJ (who you named) was the first WR taken, while J'Mon was the first WR taken by the Packers (and this is a Packers thread).

But then you said DJ didn't show nothing, when he lead all rookie WRs in yardage (with a running QB, who had an injured throwing shoulder).

And PFF wrote this In Week 10-13 (four games), no wide receiver has gained more yards after contact (147) or forced more missed tackles (6) than Carolina Panthers rookie wideout D.J. Moore.

[SSG]

53 minutes ago, Scoremore said:

If WR is the BPA with the 2nd rounder fine so be it.  You take the player.  WR is a lot lower on the priority list as far as I am concerned.  Nobody mentioned DJ Moore.  He was the first WR taken.  Granted he didn't show anything last year but that doesn't necessarily mean he's a bust either.  Maybe the light bulb comes on for the kid and he has a good season.  Also mentioning the 2018 class no one talks about Burks.  Kid has talent and can become a player.  Draft and develop.  Some guys take longer.  Personally no compelling need to take a WR IMO.  RG, DT, OLB, TE, and S are all more urgent needs.

You mean Jmon Moore, not DJ Moore who looked like a bonafide star at times last year for Carolina.  Moore wasn't mentioned much in the thread because he didn't have a regular season snap all year where he looked like he belonged on a NFL field.  He looked more like a guy who should have been on the practice squad instead of the active roster.  

[AlexGreen#20]

4 minutes ago, SSG said:

You mean Jmon Moore, not DJ Moore who looked like a bonafide star at times last year for Carolina.  Moore wasn't mentioned much in the thread because he didn't have a regular season snap all year where he looked like he belonged on a NFL field.  He looked more like a guy who should have been on the practice squad instead of the active roster.  

55/800/2 "Looked like a bonafide star at times" but 38/581/2 is enough that we feel the need to spend a 2nd round pick on another WR in the case of MVS?

 

You just hate anybody currently on the roster man.

[beekay414]

This is an absolutely not. Especially if we grab Hockenson at 30. If we take him, I'm calling him Over the Top (Hawk & Son).

We need to invest on the EDGE and at safety. MVS, EQ and J'Mon will be fine as the depth plus we'll have Geronimo back as well. We do not need to invest in a WR earlier than the 3rd and that's only if the value calls for it. 

[SSG]

6 minutes ago, AlexGreen#20 said:

55/800/2 "Looked like a bonafide star at times" but 38/581/2 is enough that we feel the need to spend a 2nd round pick on another WR in the case of MVS?

 

You just hate anybody currently on the roster man.

"At times".... Lets also not ignore that MVS played with the most talented QB in the NFL and Moore played on a  run first team with a QB who is likely to miss all of next season because of a shoulder injury he had all last year.  

I don't hate anyone I just don't share the infatuation over MVS because of his combine workout.  Opinions of him haven't changed since the day he was drafted.  He's been herald as a future star regardless of how he's played on the field.  The fact that he was bordered on useless for the majority of last year goes on blind eyes because he's big, tall and fast in gym shorts.  It's literally the only reason he's viewed as the next super start WR to come out of Green Bay.  Jeff Janis V2 with more opportunity because of the garbage we had at WR (whether the result of injury or low end talent).

It's funny that fans were probably perfectly ok when Nelson, Cobb or Adams were drafted in the second but now it's suddenly a franchise ruining move.  We had substantially more talent at WR in 2008, 2011 and 2014 when we invested a second round pick at WR.

[Lodestar]

8 minutes ago, SSG said:

"At times".... Lets also not ignore that MVS played with the most talented QB in the NFL and Moore played on a  run first team with a QB who is likely to miss all of next season because of a shoulder injury he had all last year.  

I don't hate anyone I just don't share the infatuation over MVS because of his combine workout.  Opinions of him haven't changed since the day he was drafted.  He's been herald as a future star regardless of how he's played on the field.  The fact that he was bordered on useless for the majority of last year goes on blind eyes because he's big, tall and fast in gym shorts.  It's literally the only reason he's viewed as the next super start WR to come out of Green Bay.  Jeff Janis V2 with more opportunity because of the garbage we had at WR (whether the result of injury or low end talent).

It's funny that fans were probably perfectly ok when Nelson, Cobb or Adams were drafted in the second but now it's suddenly a franchise ruining move.  We had substantially more talent at WR in 2008, 2011 and 2014 when we invested a second round pick at WR.

I'm not even as sold on MVS as some others, but that is extremely untrue. If you go back and look at the draft threads from last year, Moore was the guy whose physical skills and highlights people were salivating over, EQ was the intriguing big name who had fallen, and MVS was the Janis-level project and presumed ST gunner.

[AlexGreen#20]

17 minutes ago, SSG said:

"At times".... Lets also not ignore that MVS played with the most talented QB in the NFL and Moore played on a  run first team with a QB who is likely to miss all of next season because of a shoulder injury he had all last year.  

I don't hate anyone I just don't share the infatuation over MVS because of his combine workout.  Opinions of him haven't changed since the day he was drafted.  He's been herald as a future star regardless of how he's played on the field.  The fact that he was bordered on useless for the majority of last year goes on blind eyes because he's big, tall and fast in gym shorts.  It's literally the only reason he's viewed as the next super start WR to come out of Green Bay.  Jeff Janis V2 with more opportunity because of the garbage we had at WR (whether the result of injury or low end talent).

It's funny that fans were probably perfectly ok when Nelson, Cobb or Adams were drafted in the second but now it's suddenly a franchise ruining move.  We had substantially more talent at WR in 2008, 2011 and 2014 when we invested a second round pick at WR.

I'm sure Rodgers talent level was a real comfort to MVS every time Rodgers threw a ball four steps past him while open on his deep routes or too far out of bounds on his out routes?

For all the shots at Cam Newton, he was 9th in completion percentage this year. Rodgers was a genuinely pathetic 26th. 

Cam threw 1 fewer TDs in 2 fewer games and 128 fewer attempts, and was actually responsible for more overall when you include his rushing.

The Panthers offense was 11th in points per drive with 2 games started with a backup QB. The Packers was 15th.

Get that weak **** out of here about MVS stats being inflated because of his QB.

Cam Newton was a better QB than Aaron Rodgers was this year, busted shoulder and all.