cannondale Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Hockendas and 20 catches for 189 yards would definitely vault us over the top in 2019. No need for guards or tackles that make every single other offensive position better. Who cares if Rodgers gets killed for the third straight season. Xbox Rulezzzzz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
{Family Ghost} Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 If Devin White is Roquan Smith or better then I am more than fine with selecting him at #12. We haven't had a superior player roaming the 2nd level in decades. I think a duo of White/Martinez would be very strong. Pettine would love it, because it would give him an elite blitzer to make good use of. At #30 I'd be looking for a good edge rusher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrettFavre004 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 47 minutes ago, {Family Ghost} said: If Devin White is Roquan Smith or better then I am more than fine with selecting him at #12. We haven't had a superior player roaming the 2nd level in decades. I think a duo of White/Martinez would be very strong. Pettine would love it, because it would give him an elite blitzer to make good use of. At #30 I'd be looking for a good edge rusher. Ewww, thought I liked Devin Bush better until I just saw he was only 5'11" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 hour ago, cannondale said: Hockendas and 20 catches for 189 yards would definitely vault us over the top in 2019. No need for guards or tackles that make every single other offensive position better. Who cares if Rodgers gets killed for the third straight season. Xbox Rulezzzzz I don't want anything to do with a tight end early but I also don't care about drafting to put us over the top this coming season. Anything can happen but I really doubt we are a SB team unless lighting strikes many times. And I'm just not for drafting for the coming season anyways. I know it's unpopular, sort of, but I just think it's a mistake to do that too often. It's not a hard rule by ANY means. But there's also guys like the one the saints took that had a decent rookie year that everyone and their dog told me needed a redshirt. Not that he lit the world on fire or anything. But he was a decent player for them in the snaps they gave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneTwoSixFive Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Norm said: ...........And I'm just not for drafting for the coming season anyways. I know it's unpopular, sort of, but I just think it's a mistake to do that too often. It's not a hard rule by ANY means. But there's also guys like the one the saints took that had a decent rookie year that everyone and their dog told me needed a redshirt. Not that he lit the world on fire or anything. But he was a decent player for them in the snaps they gave. So true. You hope for the best with rookies, but you have to accept they are just that and even guys that eventually become good players can be overwhelmed early on. The players you should really be getting excited over are last years picks (and maybe even the year before that)............but who the heck ever does that ? For the majority of drafted players (in other words, a generalisation), in the rookie year you hope to get something, and by the seasons end you are halfway between hope and expectation that they have improved. In year two you expect guys to be firmly on the path to being the best they can be, and it is reasonable to anticipate a real jump from rookie to year 2. If it hasn't happened before now, year three is 'the perform or be gone' year. Very talented players like Jordy Nelson and Davante Adams took until year three to shine because there is much to learn and some positions are easier (more instinctive) than others. Good RBs quite often shine as rookies, as their position has a lot of instinct attached to it. Good line play (on O and D) takes time, because rookies (if playing) are very often directly wrestling with real savvy vets that might be five or ten years older. Line play is very mano a mano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 18 minutes ago, OneTwoSixFive said: So true. You hope for the best with rookies, but you have to accept they are just that and even guys that eventually become good players can be overwhelmed early on. The players you should really be getting excited over are last years picks (and maybe even the year before that)............but who the heck ever does that ? For the majority of drafted players (in other words, a generalisation), in the rookie year you hope to get something, and by the seasons end you are halfway between hope and expectation that they have improved. In year two you expect guys to be firmly on the path to being the best they can be, and it is reasonable to anticipate a real jump from rookie to year 2. If it hasn't happened before now, year three is 'the perform or be gone' year. Very talented players like Jordy Nelson and Davante Adams took until year three to shine because there is much to learn and some positions are easier (more instinctive) than others. Good RBs quite often shine as rookies, as their position has a lot of instinct attached to it. Good line play (on O and D) takes time, because rookies (if playing) are very often directly wrestling with real savvy vets that might be five or ten years older. Line play is very mano a mano. RB is clearly the one you can find. You're spot on from my feel without any research. I just don't buy into this hard rules ON ANYTHING yeah trends are trends but my thinking is you should be able to look at things close enough to find those who might bust those trends. I guess I'm Grudenian lol. I buy into numbers and trends but I hate when they're rules to live by universally. Though I understand we're just fans and not privy to everything so we work with what we got Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 3 hours ago, cannondale said: Hockendas and 20 catches for 189 yards would definitely vault us over the top in 2019. No need for guards or tackles that make every single other offensive position better. Who cares if Rodgers gets killed for the third straight season. Xbox Rulezzzzz A 4th string TE is going to help Rodgers from getting killed more than a TE who's an elite blocker? Not sure where the 20 catches and 189 yards comes from. By giving Rodgers more options he's likely not to have to hold the ball for 15 seconds because he's only got 1 pass catcher who can consistently get open. Given what we seen from AR12 down the stretch in 2016 with a healthy Jared Cook, I'm not sure you could stop him if he ever got a 15 yard per catch, George Kittle caliber of TE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cannondale Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, SSG said: A 4th string TE is going to help Rodgers from getting killed more than a TE who's an elite blocker? Not sure where the 20 catches and 189 yards comes from. By giving Rodgers more options he's likely not to have to hold the ball for 15 seconds because he's only got 1 pass catcher who can consistently get open. Given what we seen from AR12 down the stretch in 2016 with a healthy Jared Cook, I'm not sure you could stop him if he ever got a 15 yard per catch, George Kittle caliber of TE. First of all I need the link that says Hockendas is going to be Kittle. It seems to be a given in this forum and I missed it. Secondly, check production for rookie tight ends league wide. Thirdly, check tight ends that MAY get 5 snaps a game (mostly short yardage) because Graham will get all the snaps. I was probably generous on what his numbers would be. So yeah, immediate help on the line which helps keep Rodgers upright, improves the passing game and running game seems far more important to me considering who we were running out there last year. It ain't shiny, sprarkly, or twinkly, but it gets results Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheech Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/02/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-t-j-hockenson/ https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/07/comparing-fant-hockenson-to-recent-elite-te-prospects/ https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/29/draft-class-heroes-dispelling-iowa-tight-end-narratives/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 15 hours ago, Norm said: I don't want anything to do with a tight end early but I also don't care about drafting to put us over the top this coming season. Anything can happen but I really doubt we are a SB team unless lighting strikes many times. And I'm just not for drafting for the coming season anyways. I know it's unpopular, sort of, but I just think it's a mistake to do that too often. It's not a hard rule by ANY means. But there's also guys like the one the saints took that had a decent rookie year that everyone and their dog told me needed a redshirt. Not that he lit the world on fire or anything. But he was a decent player for them in the snaps they gave. Whoa, perception doesn't match production. He most definitely didn't light the world on fire. If the Pack would've stayed put and drafted him and he had the same stats people would be calling him a bust. 11 regular season games, 21 total tackles, 4.5 sacks. We would be crucifying Gute for that move. Include that NO gave up a future #1 makes it hurt that much more. Maybe he gets better, maybe not. Hell, Fack had double digit sacks and we still trash him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachbuns Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Cheech said: https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/02/2019-nfl-draft-player-profile-t-j-hockenson/ https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/02/07/comparing-fant-hockenson-to-recent-elite-te-prospects/ https://thedraftnetwork.com/2019/01/29/draft-class-heroes-dispelling-iowa-tight-end-narratives/ I don't think anybody is disputing these 2 Iowa TE are really good players at their position. Main dispute on this thread ... are they indeed among top 15 players available to draft? From all the reactions; it's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I'd like to see either one picked by us with our 30th or 44th pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uffdaswede Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 37 minutes ago, coachbuns said: I don't think anybody is disputing these 2 Iowa TE are really good players at their position. Main dispute on this thread ... are they indeed among top 15 players available to draft? From all the reactions; it's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I'd like to see either one picked by us with our 30th or 44th pick. Sure. I agree with this. When I have agreed with the proposition that we draft Hock at 12 or we don't get him, it simply means that he probably will not be there at 30, and he won't be there by 44. Nobody should pick a tight end at 12. Boy, I'd consider him if he is still there at 30 and I'll throw things should somebody pick him just before our third pick in the draft. He blocks and runs great routes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 16 hours ago, Norm said: I don't want anything to do with a tight end early but I also don't care about drafting to put us over the top this coming season. Anything can happen but I really doubt we are a SB team unless lighting strikes many times. And I'm just not for drafting for the coming season anyways. I know it's unpopular, sort of, but I just think it's a mistake to do that too often. It's not a hard rule by ANY means. But there's also guys like the one the saints took that had a decent rookie year that everyone and their dog told me needed a redshirt. Not that he lit the world on fire or anything. But he was a decent player for them in the snaps they gave. 1 hour ago, Dubz41 said: Whoa, perception doesn't match production. He most definitely didn't light the world on fire. If the Pack would've stayed put and drafted him and he had the same stats people would be calling him a bust. 11 regular season games, 21 total tackles, 4.5 sacks. We would be crucifying Gute for that move. Include that NO gave up a future #1 makes it hurt that much more. Maybe he gets better, maybe not. Hell, Fack had double digit sacks and we still trash him. I'm a pretty big Davenport fan. And he was injured most of last year. I saw him flash a couple times. I'll tell you this. GB doesn't have anyone at OLB with his size and that speed. I was amazed at how that kid can cover ground. Also....the little I saw, he had agility and change of direction issues, in that he almost comes to a complete stop when he has to change direction. Feet stop moving...etc. He's poor there. In GB, I think he would have been a very good power OLB. I liken him to Jaylon Ferguson in this draft, though I think that Fergie has more agility. Not great agility, but better agility and a little more bend. I don't get why there isn't more love for Ferguson right now. If he's there at #30, I can't help but think that is a great pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 1 hour ago, coachbuns said: I don't think anybody is disputing these 2 Iowa TE are really good players at their position. Main dispute on this thread ... are they indeed among top 15 players available to draft? From all the reactions; it's all in the eye of the beholder. Personally, I'd like to see either one picked by us with our 30th or 44th pick. Yup. that's where I like them. Throw Irv Smith in there, too. He's pretty darned good. Fluid. I almost prefer him at 44 to taking a TE at 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norm Posted February 13, 2019 Share Posted February 13, 2019 2 hours ago, Dubz41 said: Whoa, perception doesn't match production. He most definitely didn't light the world on fire. If the Pack would've stayed put and drafted him and he had the same stats people would be calling him a bust. 11 regular season games, 21 total tackles, 4.5 sacks. We would be crucifying Gute for that move. Include that NO gave up a future #1 makes it hurt that much more. Maybe he gets better, maybe not. Hell, Fack had double digit sacks and we still trash him. No way. Saints fans are all excited about what he did and what he can be going forward. 4.5-7 sacks is about what anyone expected with him being such raw. Stats aren't super important with this one Edit: if we gave the future first yeah I'd have been pissed lol. Would have been fine taking him there after what he's done so far Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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