Golfman Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 19 minutes ago, JBURGE said: It all depends on who is trading up... if it's the Redskins at 15, it would probably only take them a 3rd or 4th to move up to us. Is that worth it to us to pass on two players? Depends on how the board falls. Oakland at 24 or 27 is the only team in the playoffs sniffing at QB right now. Rivers showed he probably has a few years left, and everyone else has a QB. Our options to move down aren't really there. Like I said, I think the 8 and 9 spots are the ones that would see action from Washington, Cinci or Miami to move up for a QB There is a premium when a team is coming up for a QB. I'm not moving from 12 with either Miami or Washington for less than a 2nd. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 hours ago, Golfman said: Eagles have said, according to Adam Schefter, they will use franchise tag on Nick Foles. That pretty much takes him off the market. If I"m Foles, I'm signing that franchise tender the day it's up on me. Now, a team is stuck with the QB franchise number and probably asking a 1st. I think this is a mistake for Philly. Using your same source, Eagles are expected to use the Franchise tag and then trade him for a 3rd... with some others suggesting the Eagles are trying to get the draft pick AND make sure he gets out of the division, as the Giants and Redskins might be looking to get help at QB... And some think the Jaguars might be interested... of course that's mainly because their new OC used to be Foles QB coach, and because Tom Coughlin (who's running the show), would probably prefer a vet over a rookie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Beast said: Using your same source, Eagles are expected to use the Franchise tag and then trade him for a 3rd... with some others suggesting the Eagles are trying to get the draft pick AND make sure he gets out of the division, as the Giants and Redskins might be looking to get help at QB... And some think the Jaguars might be interested... of course that's mainly because their new OC used to be Foles QB coach, and because Tom Coughlin (who's running the show), would probably prefer a vet over a rookie. The risk hardly seems worth the reward. It was 23 million last year and almost certain to go up 2-4 million for 2019 when you look at the value of the contracts that were done with Stafford, Rodgers, Cousins, Garrapolo. Jacksonville is currently 4.36 million dollars OVER the cap for 2019. They have to relieve themselves of over 30 million in cap space with draft picks to be able to get him and that is just barely breaking even after the rookie pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 3 minutes ago, Golfman said: The risk hardly seems worth the reward. It was 23 million last year and almost certain to go up 2-4 million for 2019 when you look at the value of the contracts that were done with Stafford, Rodgers, Cousins, Garrapolo. Jacksonville is currently 4.36 million dollars OVER the cap for 2019. They have to relieve themselves of over 30 million in cap space with draft picks to be able to get him and that is just barely breaking even after the rookie pool. Yup. The QB needy teams also need to have the cap space to fit in the $25ish Million that Foles would cost against their cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, Golfman said: 51 minutes ago, JBURGE said: It all depends on who is trading up... if it's the Redskins at 15, it would probably only take them a 3rd or 4th to move up to us. Is that worth it to us to pass on two players? Depends on how the board falls. Oakland at 24 or 27 is the only team in the playoffs sniffing at QB right now. Rivers showed he probably has a few years left, and everyone else has a QB. Our options to move down aren't really there. Like I said, I think the 8 and 9 spots are the ones that would see action from Washington, Cinci or Miami to move up for a QB There is a premium when a team is coming up for a QB. I'm not moving from 12 with either Miami or Washington for less than a 2nd. Arizona went from 15 to 10 just 9 months ago giving up a 3rd and 5th to get a QB, so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 5 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Arizona went from 15 to 10 just 9 months ago giving up a 3rd and 5th to get a QB, so Yep, but look what the Bears gave up. It's a game of Poker and you have to be willing to walk away if you don't get your price. Mine would be a 2nd for Washington a 3rd for Miami but they'd have to tell me they were moving ahead of us for a QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, Golfman said: Yep, but look what the Bears gave up. It's a game of Poker and you have to be willing to walk away if you don't get your price. Mine would be a 2nd for Washington a 3rd for Miami but they'd have to tell me they were moving ahead of us for a QB. Yeah but that was from 3 to 2.... the difference in value there is huge 3rd from Miami to move up 1 spot? What? If they're trading up we are getting the exact player we want, that doesnt make any sense for them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golfman Posted February 3, 2019 Author Share Posted February 3, 2019 Just now, JBURGE said: Yeah but that was from 3 to 2.... the difference in value there is huge I know, but if you have Miami and Washington wanting to move up to secure the same QB, the value chart is out the door. If I'm negotiating, it's a 3 from Miami and a 2 from Washington, otherwise, I stand pat and take my guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 43 minutes ago, Golfman said: The risk hardly seems worth the reward. It was 23 million last year and almost certain to go up 2-4 million for 2019 when you look at the value of the contracts that were done with Stafford, Rodgers, Cousins, Garrapolo. Jacksonville is currently 4.36 million dollars OVER the cap for 2019. They have to relieve themselves of over 30 million in cap space with draft picks to be able to get him and that is just barely breaking even after the rookie pool. First off, it doesn't have the be the Jaguars. Second off, the Jaguars can free up a lot of money fast by releasing or trading a number of guys... ~ $11 million DT Malik Jackson (expected to be gone, after losing his starting spot) ~ $11.5 million DE Calais Campbell ~ $10.6 ... DT Marcell Dareus ~ $9.4 ... CB A.J. Bouye ~ $7.4 FS Tashaun Gipson ~ $6 RT Jermey Parnell ~ $5.8 C Brandon Linder (never been able to play 16 games in his career, and 15 only once) ~ $4.7 RB Carlos Hyde (back-up RB) ~ $4.5 Blake Bortles ($9.5 if use post June release) ~ $4.4 TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins (expected to be gone) ~ $4 DT Abry Jones Clearly they're not going to do all of these... but just Malik, post June Bortles, Linder and Seferian-Jenkins alone get you past your number. Releasing 3 guys you were going to release anyways and a Center that can't stay healthy (or the 33 year old RT if you want to keep the Center). Point being, the Jaguars clearly have money to play with after making some key releases (or trades). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 10 minutes ago, Beast said: First off, it doesn't have the be the Jaguars. Second off, the Jaguars can free up a lot of money fast by releasing or trading a number of guys... ~ $11 million DT Malik Jackson (expected to be gone, after losing his starting spot) ~ $11.5 million DE Calais Campbell ~ $10.6 ... DT Marcell Dareus ~ $9.4 ... CB A.J. Bouye ~ $7.4 FS Tashaun Gipson ~ $6 RT Jermey Parnell ~ $5.8 C Brandon Linder (never been able to play 16 games in his career, and 15 only once) ~ $4.7 RB Carlos Hyde (back-up RB) ~ $4.5 Blake Bortles ($9.5 if use post June release) ~ $4.4 TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins (expected to be gone) ~ $4 DT Abry Jones Clearly they're not going to do all of these... but just Malik, post June Bortles, Linder and Seferian-Jenkins alone get you past your number. Releasing 3 guys you were going to release anyways and a Center that can't stay healthy (or the 33 year old RT if you want to keep the Center). Point being, the Jaguars clearly have money to play with after making some key releases (or trades). Correct, JAX can free up the space to pursue Foles. But why pursue a high priced veteran QB if you have to deplete the roster to do so? JAX would be better off going the young QB route and trying to keep the roster talent they have and hope the rookie QB can develop in the short term on a cheap contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 1 minute ago, squire12 said: Correct, JAX can free up the space to pursue Foles. But why pursue a high priced veteran QB if you have to deplete the roster to do so? JAX would be better off going the young QB route and trying to keep the roster talent they have and hope the rookie QB can develop in the short term on a cheap contract. I agree with you, they should probably go with a cheaper QB.... But it's depleting the extra cap space, not the roster... as DT Malik Jackson and TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins are expected to be gone no matter what... and if you get a vet QB then Bortles is gone... and so you're just getting rid of one other guy on the list. So it's not depleting the roster... just the extra cap space... but if they seriously think they got a run at the Super Bowl do you really want Bortles at QB or do you want an upgrade? ... I agree a cheaper option would be better... though I'm not sure if Jaguars shot caller, Tom Coughlin (who'll be 73 this coming NFL season), wants to wait to develop a rookie QB... But if they trust Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Josh McCown, then they might be better options... but do you really trust them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, Beast said: I agree with you, they should probably go with a cheaper QB.... But it's depleting the extra cap space, not the roster... as DT Malik Jackson and TE Austin Seferian-Jenkins are expected to be gone no matter what... and if you get a vet QB then Bortles is gone... and so you're just getting rid of one other guy on the list. So it's not depleting the roster... just the extra cap space... but if they seriously think they got a run at the Super Bowl do you really want Bortles at QB or do you want an upgrade? ... I agree a cheaper option would be better... though I'm not sure if Jaguars shot caller, Tom Coughlin (who'll be 73 this coming NFL season), wants to wait to develop a rookie QB... But if they trust Teddy Bridgewater, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Tyrod Taylor, Josh McCown, then they might be better options... but do you really trust them? I am just not sold that Foles is that much of an upgrade over Bortles....or a Tannehill type QB. Foles has been a mediocre starter for his career. He had a magical run in the playoffs with a stacked PHI roster, top 3 defense and stellar OL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 2 minutes ago, squire12 said: I am just not sold that Foles is that much of an upgrade over Bortles....or a Tannehill type QB. Foles has been a mediocre starter for his career. He had a magical run in the playoffs with a stacked PHI roster, top 3 defense and stellar OL. Also one of the top play callers.... But the Jaguars are trying that same formula, top running game and defense to get them there... with a good/smart QB. Just Bortles really sucks... I'm not sure Foles is the answer either... but I do believe Bortles is a lot worse than Foles... they're just looking for their Eli Manning like Coughlin had with the Giants. Just no mistakes, and ones in a while make a big play while relying on your running game and defense. I agree with you, not the smartest move.... but I think almost everyone would agree (at the time) giving Bortles that large new contract wasn't the smartest thing either... so they've been willing to do some dumb things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squire12 Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 4 minutes ago, Beast said: Also one of the top play callers.... But the Jaguars are trying that same formula, top running game and defense to get them there... with a good/smart QB. Just Bortles really sucks... I'm not sure Foles is the answer either... but I do believe Bortles is a lot worse than Foles... they're just looking for their Eli Manning like Coughlin had with the Giants. Just no mistakes, and ones in a while make a big play while relying on your running game and defense. I agree with you, not the smartest move.... but I think almost everyone would agree (at the time) giving Bortles that large new contract wasn't the smartest thing either... so they've been willing to do some dumb things. JAX drafting at #7, might have their pick of the top QB in this draft class. Rookie QB, shed some of the bad contracts, but retain enough of the talent and make a run in 2019 and 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beast Posted February 3, 2019 Share Posted February 3, 2019 31 minutes ago, squire12 said: JAX drafting at #7, might have their pick of the top QB in this draft class. Rookie QB, shed some of the bad contracts, but retain enough of the talent and make a run in 2019 and 2020 And in 2017 they had a chance to grab Patrick Mahomes and Deshaun Watson and passed... shot at Lamar Jackson last year and passed.... The chances of a QB being picked in the top 6 picks is normally very high... Though picking at #7 means they have a high chance that one of the elite DL, that they're ALWAYS going after will fall to them. Nick Bosa, Quinnen Williams, Josh Allen, Ed Oliver, Clelin Ferrell. Or the first CB either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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