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3 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

This is a bad argument. Carter and Brown being shafted isn't a good reason to shaft Bruce. It's like that silly argument MLB voters used to make about not letting guys be unanimous first-ballot HOFers.

It's not a bad argument and no where near the same situations as the MLB argument that you're choosing to compare it with. 

There is such a logjam at the WR position that if players like those I mentioned had to wait and Reed had to wait 8 years, there is no way in hell Bruce should get in after only 4 years.

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1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not a bad argument and no where near the same situations as the MLB argument that you're choosing to compare it with. 

There is such a logjam at the WR position that if players like those I mentioned had to wait and Reed had to wait 8 years, there is no way in hell Bruce should get in after only 4 years.

It's a bad argument. There's only a logjam at WR because the voters have been total idiots about it. That's similar to the MLB. Look at the WRs who already are in the HOF.

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4 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

It's not a bad argument and no where near the same situations as the MLB argument that you're choosing to compare it with. 

There is such a logjam at the WR position that if players like those I mentioned had to wait and Reed had to wait 8 years, there is no way in hell Bruce should get in after only 4 years.

Also, Ike was a better WR than Andre Reed.

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9 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

He brought up Ints, dude. Try familiarizing yourself with a conversation before coming in guns blazing and making a fool of yourself.

I did. Mentioning that he twice led the league in INTs is not the same thing. Yards are more steady season to season an you know it. I don't think even that is relevant, but it hardly is the same as career. Especially since WRs do the best in yards. Safeties, not corners, tend to do better in INTs so again you aren't even comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to pianos.

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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

It's a bad argument. There's only a logjam at WR because the voters have been total idiots about it. That's similar to the MLB. Look at the WRs who already are in the HOF.

Number of players elected into the HoF as of now. Have they been total idiots about it, yes (no argument at all there) but it's not as if were talking about interior lineman or centers here man. 

Pos # of players
C 12
DB 26
DE 27
DT 16
E 2
FB 10
G 20
HB 12
K 2
LB 28
P 1
QB 28
RB 29
T 28
TE 8
WB 1
WR 23

 

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2 minutes ago, mse326 said:

I did. Mentioning that he twice led the league in INTs is not the same thing. Yards are more steady season to season an you know it. I don't think even that is relevant, but it hardly is the same as career. Especially since WRs do the best in yards. Safeties, not corners, tend to do better in INTs so again you aren't even comparing apples to oranges. More like apples to pianos.

Yes, it is the same thing. He compared Law's Ints to Bruce's receiving yardage. I don't think Ints are a consequential stat. But he treated them like one. Again, try keeping up with the conversation.

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Just now, jrry32 said:

Yes, it is the same thing. He compared Law's Ints to Bruce's receiving yardage. I don't think Ints are a consequential stat. But he treated them like one. Again, try keeping up with the conversation.

Given that I acknowledged he said that the best you can accuse me is not thinking they are same. That is a difference of opinion. It has nothing to do with not keeping up. So stop being a condescending (insert favorite name call here).

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1 minute ago, JustAnotherFan said:

 

Number of players elected into the HoF as of now. Have they been total idiots about it, yes (no argument at all there) but it's not as if were talking about interior lineman or centers here man. 

Pos # of players
C 12
DB 26
DE 27
DT 16
E 2
FB 10
G 20
HB 12
K 2
LB 28
P 1
QB 28
RB 29
T 28
TE 8
WB 1
WR 23

 

There is something fundamentally wrong with how they treat WRs. Ike, Marvin Harrison, TO, Cris Carter, etc. weren't first-ballot HOFers. Carter wasn't close. Ike won't be close. Something is wrong with how they consider that position. 

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5 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

Also, Ike was a better WR than Andre Reed.

I'm not getting into this but all I have heard was that Bruce did it with no help.....

Andre Reed and was the perfect example of a quintessential WR at the time.  

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Just now, mse326 said:

Given that I acknowledged he said that the best you can accuse me is not thinking they are same. That is a difference of opinion. It has nothing to do with not keeping up. So stop being a condescending (insert favorite name call here).

Don't even start with me on condescension. I was addressing the conversation on his terms, and you came in throwing around insults. Had you asked me whether I thought it was fair to judge a CB by Ints, I would have answered your question, and we could have had our own conversation on our terms. Instead, you came into the thread in an insulting manner. Well, when you do that, I respond in kind. We could have had a very civil conversation, but you didn't set that tone. If you'd like to have a civil conversation, I am game.

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3 minutes ago, JustAnotherFan said:

I'm not getting into this but all I have heard was that Bruce did it with no help.....

Andre Reed and was the perfect example of a quintessential WR at the time.  

Ike did it early in his career with no help. The GSOT obviously was help. Of course, that came with some limitations of its own.

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Just now, jrry32 said:

Don't even start with me on condescension. 

That one had me laughing pretty hard. It’s easily the most hypocritical and ironic thing I’ve seen posted here in a long time. Also always good when mods then infer calling you an insult/name too.

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1 minute ago, jrry32 said:

Don't even start with me on condescension. I was addressing the conversation on his terms, and you came in throwing around insults. Had you asked me whether I thought it was fair to judge a CB by Ints, I would have answered your question, and we could have had our own conversation on our terms. Instead, you came into the thread in an insulting manner. Well, when you do that, I respond in kind. We could have had a very civil conversation, but you didn't set that tone. If you'd like to have a civil conversation, I am game.

Calling someone a homer is not insulting. You'd have been banned long ago if that's true as that is your go to move.

And I reject that you addressed it on his terms. That was the whole point of my second post that you seemed to ignore. Single season is not the same as career. INTs being driven by opportunity that you have no control of, and mixing Safeties into your analysis are two big reasons.

And even if you wanted to respond in kind saying I'm not following the conversation when I specifically said I was is just plain false. So it doesn't even make sense.

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2 minutes ago, MWil23 said:

That one had me laughing pretty hard. It’s easily the most hypocritical and ironic thing I’ve seen posted here in a long time. Also always good when mods then infer calling you an insult/name too.

What did I say that was condescending. I disagreed with him. That isn't condescension.

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2 minutes ago, jrry32 said:

There is something fundamentally wrong with how they treat WRs. Ike, Marvin Harrison, TO, Cris Carter, etc. weren't first-ballot HOFers. Carter wasn't close. Ike won't be close. Something is wrong with how they consider that position. 

I agree and I don't have the answer, obviously, but I think it has alot to do with the WR position itself essentially being 2 positions on 32 teams -- WR1 and WR2 -- that's 64 positions, and that can sometimes be hard for voters to decide which player made the biggest impact. Similar to the CB position. 

What's going to be interesting is if my theory here does in fact impact the voting and why there is such a logjam then it's only going ot get worse now that most teams are using the slot on offense and a nickel packages on defense.

Again, I agree it is a mess and I don't have the answer I'm just thinking out loud here.

I won't argue the players and where I feel like they should have been placed. Not going into that.

 

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