lancerman Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: That idea is more apparent every year but it was considered crazy talk not too long ago. It still gets very risky because you can do a lot worse and a few years of horrible QB play will make your fans turn on you, QB/GM get fired too. Its a definite catch-22 The last few Super Bowl winners. 2010 Rodgers before he got a giant contract. 2011 Eli 2012 Flacco before his giant contract 2013 Wilson before his contract 2014 Brady taking pay cuts 2015 Manning after he took a contract cut because his play dropped off 2016 Brady 2017 the Eagles were Foles had a backup salary and Wentz was still on his rookie deal 2018 Brady taking pay cuts. It's been quite awhile since we saw a QB on a massive contract win the Super Bowl. And the last to do it was technically Eli in 2011 where he just went berserk in the playoffs and if that didn't happen he actually didn't have a good team that year before he went off. Then before that you had Brees in 2009 who is elite. Then Ben in 08 who still might have been on his rookie deal or his team might have just paid him. I thin only Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees are good enough to win despite their contracts and they did it far more infrequently when they were maxing out their deals. Teams need to rethink the whole "we need to pay the franchise QB". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 20 hours ago, lancerman said: The last few Super Bowl winners. 2010 Rodgers before he got a giant contract. 2011 Eli 2012 Flacco before his giant contract 2013 Wilson before his contract 2014 Brady taking pay cuts 2015 Manning after he took a contract cut because his play dropped off 2016 Brady 2017 the Eagles were Foles had a backup salary and Wentz was still on his rookie deal 2018 Brady taking pay cuts. It's been quite awhile since we saw a QB on a massive contract win the Super Bowl. And the last to do it was technically Eli in 2011 where he just went berserk in the playoffs and if that didn't happen he actually didn't have a good team that year before he went off. Then before that you had Brees in 2009 who is elite. Then Ben in 08 who still might have been on his rookie deal or his team might have just paid him. I thin only Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees are good enough to win despite their contracts and they did it far more infrequently when they were maxing out their deals. Teams need to rethink the whole "we need to pay the franchise QB". Agreed, we always say the QB is the most important position in football and while that is still true and its the toughest one to find a legit cornerstone piece but what is harder: Finding a franchise QB or Building a team outside of an average QB good enough to win a title? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 9 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Agreed, we always say the QB is the most important position in football and while that is still true and its the toughest one to find a legit cornerstone piece but what is harder: Finding a franchise QB or Building a team outside of an average QB good enough to win a title? The most important part is to find a QB who outplays his worth. He doesn't have to be a franchise QB. Look at Jaguars 2017. Bortles only had a 6.5 M caphit in 2017 but performed like a 15M QB. Allowing the Jaguars to sign Bouye, Campbell etc. In 2018 Bortles regressed and the Jaguars could not recover from that. The Eagles in 2017 only had a 7.2 M caphit for the MVP runner-up and the Super Bowl MVP combined. The 2013 Seahawks had Wilson playing on a 700k caphit. Mahomes played on a 3.7M caphit this past year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddyboy Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 On 2/13/2019 at 6:14 PM, NFL_Announcer said: Probably not in this lifetime. The Pats have BB and Brady sure, but their ownership model and ability to manage free agency is incredible. They let players and coaches walk at the perfect time and also seem to get ransoms in the trade aspect. They get away with very good free agent contracts and haven't really had a contract situation blow up in their face. Look at Seattle for instance who many thought was a dynasty in the making. They gave out RIDICULOUS contracts to the secondary and basically couldn't afford an offensive line or any sort of support for Wilson, while trading away a bunch of draft capital for injury prone/aging vets. The Pats also realize the importance of field goal kickers. I've seen so many franchises fail to get there because of **** kicking situations (most recently the Bears, but the Hawks also missed the playoffs in 2017 because of Blair Walsh, and Janikowski may have cost them the Dallas game). Plenty of other kickers who have screwed teams over... I think that is quietly one of the most important positions in the NFL but people always like to make fun of kickers and call them *******... until the game/season is on the line. It's even more important now with the XPOINT not being basically guaranteed. This. Kraft has hired 3 coaches, Parcells, Carroll and Belichick. All have SB rings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lee Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 36 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: Building a team outside of an average QB good enough to win a title? Do you consider Ben Roethlisberger as an average QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JaguarCrazy2832 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 4 minutes ago, William Lee said: Do you consider Ben Roethlisberger as an average QB? At this point? He is definitely in a higher tier than that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William Lee Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 23 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said: At this point? He is definitely in a higher tier than that I ask you this because if your goal is winning SB, Ben is better QB than Rodgers and Manning. A franchise QB for making playoff is different from a QB for winning SB. As "an average QB good enough to win a title", that is not possible unless you can have a defense that shuts down opponents when necessary, like 2000 Ravens, 2002 Bus, 2013 LOB and 2015 Broncos, that is one year deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SBLIII Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 20 hours ago, lancerman said: The last few Super Bowl winners. 2010 Rodgers before he got a giant contract. 2011 Eli 2012 Flacco before his giant contract 2013 Wilson before his contract 2014 Brady taking pay cuts 2015 Manning after he took a contract cut because his play dropped off 2016 Brady 2017 the Eagles were Foles had a backup salary and Wentz was still on his rookie deal 2018 Brady taking pay cuts. It's been quite awhile since we saw a QB on a massive contract win the Super Bowl. And the last to do it was technically Eli in 2011 where he just went berserk in the playoffs and if that didn't happen he actually didn't have a good team that year before he went off. Then before that you had Brees in 2009 who is elite. Then Ben in 08 who still might have been on his rookie deal or his team might have just paid him. I thin only Brady/Manning/Rodgers/Brees are good enough to win despite their contracts and they did it far more infrequently when they were maxing out their deals. Teams need to rethink the whole "we need to pay the franchise QB". here the caphit for winning SB QBs since 2010 and the % of the total cap 2005 Roethlisberger 4.2 million; 4.9% 2006 Manning; 10.6 million; 10.4% 2007 Manning, 10 million; 9.2% 2008 Roethlisberger, 8 million; 6.9% 2009 Brees, 10.7 million; 8.7% 2010 Rodgers, 6.5 million; 6% 2011 Manning, 14.1 million; 11.8% 2012 Flacco, 8 million; 6.6% 2013 Wilson, 681k, 0.6% 2014 Brady, 14.8 million; 11.1 % 2015 Manning, 17.5 million; 12.2 % 2016 Brady, 13.8 million; 8.9 % 2017 Foles, 1.6 million; 1 % 2018 Brady, 22 million; 12.4 % In general you better be elite (and still take a slight paycut) or have an absolute bargain at QB, mostly in terms of having a QB on a rookie deal. Winning Super Bowls with Kirk Cousins or Matthew Stafford contracts isn't happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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