big_palooka Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 9 hours ago, holyghost said: I think that there is a marked level of genuine dysfunction in this organization starting at the top. Borderline stupidity and absolute dysfunction in it's definitive meaning. But to take credit away from Mark Davis for the stadium work is criminal. It's literally the only thing he has excelled at and he was masterful in getting the stadium done. He took on a level of debt noone thought possible, secured major amounts of money very quickly, will be raking fresh money from the new stadium. He outplayed a Las Vegas CEO in spectacular fashion, who may be the slickest fish there is in business. And he parlayed a losing hand in the LA stadium debacle into a major win in a short period of time, while other owners of other teams in all sports have been railroaded with stadium issues for years if not decades with no success. To think that you're saying he deserves little credit on the stadium front is crazy. He absolutely masterminded it. I was shocked at how adept he navigated the entire thing, being a spoiled son of an NFL owner and succeeding on the level of a world class CEO. Let's not act like this was Davis. Davis is inept. He has a team of business people around him that made these things happen. And, it's reported that the Raiders brass is extremely difficult to deal with as the Giants reportedly found at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 2 hours ago, big_palooka said: Let's not act like this was Davis. Davis is inept. He has a team of business people around him that made these things happen. And, it's reported that the Raiders brass is extremely difficult to deal with as the Giants reportedly found at. You know none of that. 1. If it was the team around him, then he was responsible for placing that team around him. 2. In all their years Al Davis, Amy Trask and all the other individuals involved couldn't make any headway on a stadium. All they did was engage in conflicts, failures, and lawsuits. He's the head man to look at for all of the organizational dysfunction. That falls on him, 100%. A blind person can see the stupidity in the decisions he makes in operating a team, sometimes it's a veritable circus. So how is it that in the midst of a great success he doesn't get the credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 5 hours ago, holyghost said: 1. If it was the team around him, then he was responsible for placing that team around him. Correct. And by all accounts, including recently with the SF Giants they are hard to work worth. I don't see a great success personally. A great success would have been working to find a solution in Oakland where the team belongs. Al Davis wouldn't have moved this team out of state. I won't pretend to know all the details. But just my opinion... moving the team to Vegas was a knee jerk decision. They wanted a team and Davis fell head over heals with the idea. All it needed was momentum. Vegas has money and Mark was desperate after getting basically laughed off trying to apply for a move to LA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 for the record I wish they could've stayed in Oakland, but it was far from nirvana. seems like ever since they moved there theres been some kind of stadium issues/ contention with the city etc. at least that will go away permanently now. as far as the fans go im a born and bred Californian (so cal) and I will say easily that half of the fans are as fickle as it gets there have been many a 30 to 40k crowd at alameda over the last 15 years so lets not pretend its something it isn't. best example is the afc west... when the raiders or SD are winning the crowds are there ,losing? not so much. it doesn't matter whether the donkeys and chefs are 0-16 or 16 -0 , they sell out, and two of the noisiest stadiums in the league. im not saying that the vegas stadium will get filled with the nation, but it wont be any worse than alameda where we see crowds of 35k consistently. and I have lived in so cal and vegas (7yrs) and anybody whos ever seen the weekend exodus to vegas from so cal knows vegas IS so cal on the weekends, so mark did get part of the "market" hell on xmas eve one year the traffic was backed up from Barstow to baker at a very slow roll.yall know winning cures everything, but not a garbage stadium. marks no wizard, but hes not as dumb as people portray, course he could change that image somewhat with a simple head shave.lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 7, 2019 Share Posted February 7, 2019 btw palooka ive always respected and mostly agree your point for the record. old user name was radrshark been posting and reading since 2005, back then the biggest subject was the moss trade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
holyghost Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 4 hours ago, big_palooka said: Correct. And by all accounts, including recently with the SF Giants they are hard to work worth. I don't see a great success personally. A great success would have been working to find a solution in Oakland where the team belongs. Al Davis wouldn't have moved this team out of state. I won't pretend to know all the details. But just my opinion... moving the team to Vegas was a knee jerk decision. They wanted a team and Davis fell head over heals with the idea. All it needed was momentum. Vegas has money and Mark was desperate after getting basically laughed off trying to apply for a move to LA. I hear the merit in what you are saying, but this refers back to the decades long impasses teams often encounter. Oakland is a smallish market, the current stadium is a total wreck, and this team could never make money or compete in a modern era NFL playing there. The city did not want to do anything with the Raiders, even a small concession (small comparative to the 3/4 billion dollar contribution from Las Vegas) such as giving them control of the land or allowing it's purchase was something the city was unwilling to do. Oakland played "we can take it or leave it" in negotiation and the Raiders left. Surely it would have been a great success to get it done in Oakland, but sadly a nearly impossible one. The Raider organization was not in position to create a stadium alone. Not in Oakland anyway. Not at the very least without some control over the land or another viable option. Vegas may have been knee jerk, but that's not really the tack I am taking on this. Davis is a guy with a small percentage ownership in a team, who is not a cash rich individual the likes of some of the other billionaire owners. He was NOT well positioned at all to build a stadium. Putting together a 2 billion dollar stadium of any kind in any city is the major coup for this guy. Whether the location is knee jerk or not, he was NOT well positioned to get any stadium done anywhere, and not groomed for the responsibility either. He got plowed on the LA deal because Kroenke was putting together a major market proposal so ostentatious that it can be considered a bump for the NFL brand itself. SD got plowed by that too. So would 20 or more of the other franchises. It'll be the most expensive stadium project in the NFL when finished. Nothing got laughed off. The Raiders simply got severely outbid for the very reasons I laid out above. Big money, which Davis does not have rolling for him. So to come up with a big money deal without big money is the accomplishment. I get it, you sound cheesed off with Davis. And when it comes to running the team, in many ways, it has much merit. I find alot of things about the way this team operates beyond imbecilic. But the stadium story is not the same for whatever reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 14 hours ago, Devilshark69 said: btw palooka ive always respected and mostly agree your point for the record. old user name was radrshark been posting and reading since 2005, back then the biggest subject was the moss trade I appreciate you man. Crazy we've been around this long hoping for something to cheer about. Been some great debates over the years. The best posters have stuck around, except for a few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devilshark69 Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 10 hours ago, big_palooka said: I appreciate you man. Crazy we've been around this long hoping for something to cheer about. Been some great debates over the years. The best posters have stuck around, except for a few. remember the photoshop of AP in a raiders uni? oh if only. all kinds of stuff to laugh and cry about.lol 4 crappy nicknames in a row? jawalrus, McFragile, darius heward stonehands, and of course slowlando. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big_palooka Posted February 8, 2019 Share Posted February 8, 2019 46 minutes ago, Devilshark69 said: remember the photoshop of AP in a raiders uni? oh if only. all kinds of stuff to laugh and cry about.lol 4 crappy nicknames in a row? jawalrus, McFragile, darius heward stonehands, and of course slowlando. lol, classics. I remember as DHB as Drops Hella Balls Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Mark going back with his tail in between his legs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 6 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said: Mark going back with his tail in between his legs? Like I said before, haters looking for a win over Mark. (Hater is used knowing there are things that Norcal Raiders fans can be upset. Simply a descriptiion of these fans in the climate that is accurate.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightTrainLane Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 To frame this in a more positive light. It is what should happen. They should play in Oakland til the move. The stadium is there. The players and staff won't have to shuffle to get their work done and the Bay fans get another year of Raiders football so it's a good thing. If it happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer026 Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 5 hours ago, Devilshark69 said: remember the photoshop of AP in a raiders uni? oh if only. all kinds of stuff to laugh and cry about.lol 4 crappy nicknames in a row? jawalrus, McFragile, darius heward stonehands, and of course slowlando. Heyward Stonehands? Don't remember that one, but it's great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaidersAreOne Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Man there's some ridiculous talks on this forum and others about fans still being mad at the decision to move to Las Vegas. Seriously? In what world is staying in Oakland and playing out of O.co more beneficial than moving to a $1 B+, state of the art facility in the entertainment capital of the world? Some sport fans are so dense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StocktonSav Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 1 hour ago, RaidersAreOne said: Man there's some ridiculous talks on this forum and others about fans still being mad at the decision to move to Las Vegas. Seriously? In what world is staying in Oakland and playing out of O.co more beneficial than moving to a $1 B+, state of the art facility in the entertainment capital of the world? Some sport fans are so dense. Look, if you want to intertwine your personal identity with a billion dollar corporation under the guise of fandom, be my guest. But it's pathetic to insult the intelligence of other fans just because they don't share that point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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