Packers new slot receiver is ....

[vegas492]

Honestly I don't get spending money for a slot WR.  ESB did it last year and should only grow more into the role.  I think Kumerow has a chance there, too.  Moore has quickness for days and that can work in the slot.  I think GB would be wise to draft another WR, a little later in the draft, and that kid should have slot ability.

[coachbuns]

20 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

Think our WR's will be better in year 2 then they were in year 1. I mean our WR coach last year was put on blast and considered a fraud by Rodgers and co.

You would expect so but the question really is ... will they?  If not, we will have a problem and is that something we can handle as a team?  McCarthy had a real problem with some of his staff for sure; QB, WR and special teams coaches for sure. 

[coachbuns]

22 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

Honestly I don't get spending money for a slot WR.  ESB did it last year and should only grow more into the role.  I think Kumerow has a chance there, too.  Moore has quickness for days and that can work in the slot.  I think GB would be wise to draft another WR, a little later in the draft, and that kid should have slot ability.

Again, that's a lot of hope we are looking at.  If and that's if they improve ... great!  If not, our team will be hurting for pass receivers.  There's a whole lot of young/not much experience on the Packers receivers.  Guess there is always free agency to fall upon if things don't pan out but what will be left when it's apparent our receivers aren't working?  I don't like all this not knowing/counting on younger players to always pan out.  

[jleisher]

17 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

Man its crazy first a thread about the #12 and #30 picks as if there isnt a draft discussion board and now one about Humphries as if there isnt a Free Agency thread. Its official NFL off season is in full effect 

Who cares, come on man.  Does it really matter?  Just enjoy.

[vegas492]

25 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Again, that's a lot of hope we are looking at.  If and that's if they improve ... great!  If not, our team will be hurting for pass receivers.  There's a whole lot of young/not much experience on the Packers receivers.  Guess there is always free agency to fall upon if things don't pan out but what will be left when it's apparent our receivers aren't working?  I don't like all this not knowing/counting on younger players to always pan out.  

When you pay a QB like we pay Rodgers, he had better make the receivers work.  It really is that simple.

I mean, really, look at the same size.  G-Mo isn't the athlete that ESB, Moore and MVS are....and was producing nicely with Rodgers after he got a little experience.  If this team can't go with our young kids, then our issues are much deeper than the WR's as it becomes a QB thing.  And that isn't getting fixed by bringing in a free agent WR who hasn't sniffed a thousand yard season yet in the NFL.

In fact, Humphries went for 260 yards, 622 yards, 631 yards and 816 yards in his first four seasons.

No one is convincing me that MVS and ESB can't hit or exceed those second year numbers.  Or third.  Or fourth.

Patience is a virtue we all should have learned from Adams.

[SSG]

51 minutes ago, Nick_gb said:

Think our WR's will be better in year 2 then they were in year 1. I mean our WR coach last year was put on blast and considered a fraud by Rodgers and co.

I mean theoretically.  Jarrett Boykin was supposed to get better year 2 as a starter as well and that didn't happen.  I'm leary about putting all our eggs in the basket of these sophmore WRs making significant strides.  How many sophmores from our previous 3 or 4 drafts have developed into quility starters in their second year?  

In 2016 we banked on Randall and Rollins making significant strides as sophmores.  We didn't retain Casey Hayward and have been paying the price ever since.  Hayward developed into an all pro and Randall/ Rollins were a huge reason our defense got as bad as it did.  They never played to the level of their rookie years again.  

In 2017, Kenny Clark made some strides but it wasn't until late in the season.  It took him to week 12 of year 2 before he got his first NFL sack.  Martinez developed into a decent starter year 2 but of the 2 guys drafted in front of him (Fackrell and Spriggs).

This last year we got very little improvement from our sophmores.  King hasn't been able to stay healthy and is still very inconcistant.  Neither Josh Jones or Montravius Adams are players we'd be excited about starting next year.  Vince Beigel didn't make the roster his sophmore year despite Green Bay having one of the 2 or 3 worst set of edge rushers in the NFL.  I think we could probably call Jone's improvement as a receiver this last year as positive progression but that might have been a usage thing more so than any sort of improvement 

[Nick_gb]

1 hour ago, coachbuns said:

Again, that's a lot of hope we are looking at.  If and that's if they improve ... great!  If not, our team will be hurting for pass receivers.  There's a whole lot of young/not much experience on the Packers receivers.  Guess there is always free agency to fall upon if things don't pan out but what will be left when it's apparent our receivers aren't working?  I don't like all this not knowing/counting on younger players to always pan out.  

 

5 minutes ago, SSG said:

I mean theoretically.  Jarrett Boykin was supposed to get better year 2 as a starter as well and that didn't happen.  I'm leary about putting all our eggs in the basket of these sophmore WRs making significant strides.  How many sophmores from our previous 3 or 4 drafts have developed into quility starters in their second year?  

In 2016 we banked on Randall and Rollins making significant strides as sophmores.  We didn't retain Casey Hayward and have been paying the price ever since.  Hayward developed into an all pro and Randall/ Rollins were a huge reason our defense got as bad as it did.  They never played to the level of their rookie years again.  

In 2017, Kenny Clark made some strides but it wasn't until late in the season.  It took him to week 12 of year 2 before he got his first NFL sack.  Martinez developed into a decent starter year 2 but of the 2 guys drafted in front of him (Fackrell and Spriggs).

This last year we got very little improvement from our sophmores.  King hasn't been able to stay healthy and is still very inconcistant.  Neither Josh Jones or Montravius Adams are players we'd be excited about starting next year.  Vince Beigel didn't make the roster his sophmore year despite Green Bay having one of the 2 or 3 worst set of edge rushers in the NFL.  I think we could probably call Jone's improvement as a receiver this last year as positive progression but that might have been a usage thing more so than any sort of improvement 

I'm not saying that I'm against a FA WR. I'm merely stating that the Rookie WR's showed some flashes last year that we can all be pretty excited about and that was with a WR coach that was considered a fraud in that locker room. With a new scheme and a new coaching staff in place and a year under their belts then I expect some growth there. Whatever this Front Office decides to do to address our offense then I'll put my faith in their decision as at the end of the day they know far more than I ever will when it comes to constructing that roster. 

[coachbuns]

38 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

When you pay a QB like we pay Rodgers, he had better make the receivers work.  It really is that simple.

I mean, really, look at the same size.  G-Mo isn't the athlete that ESB, Moore and MVS are....and was producing nicely with Rodgers after he got a little experience.  If this team can't go with our young kids, then our issues are much deeper than the WR's as it becomes a QB thing.  And that isn't getting fixed by bringing in a free agent WR who hasn't sniffed a thousand yard season yet in the NFL.

In fact, Humphries went for 260 yards, 622 yards, 631 yards and 816 yards in his first four seasons.

No one is convincing me that MVS and ESB can't hit or exceed those second year numbers.  Or third.  Or fourth.

Patience is a virtue we all should have learned from Adams.

Passing the ball is a timing thing.  If your receivers are running the wrong routes, aren't where they are supposed to be ... Rodgers can't be expected to make them "work".  He can be expected to check down and hit the open receiver for sure!  However, that's not the question here.  To much patience for a player(s) to improve in this day and age gets a GM fired.  SSG gave some very good examples of waiting to long and it cost us dearly.  Can we wait 2-3-4 seasons for them to improve enough for this offense to get on track?   Rodgers window of opportunity is closing fast. 

[vegas492]

30 minutes ago, coachbuns said:

Passing the ball is a timing thing.  If your receivers are running the wrong routes, aren't where they are supposed to be ... Rodgers can't be expected to make them "work".  He can be expected to check down and hit the open receiver for sure!  However, that's not the question here.  To much patience for a player(s) to improve in this day and age gets a GM fired.  SSG gave some very good examples of waiting to long and it cost us dearly.  Can we wait 2-3-4 seasons for them to improve enough for this offense to get on track?   Rodgers window of opportunity is closing fast. 

As posted, there were issues with WR coaching last year.

I don't understand the whole "patience" thing.  Of course you need to have patience.  Too much?  It's been one year!  One!  Give them some time.

What makes you think a guy who hasn't sniffed 1,000 yards yet in his career is going to line up and "save" the offense?  And...he's gonna cost coin.  Coin that you can flip to defensive free agency to help solidify that unit where you can more easily "plug and play".

[SSG]

36 minutes ago, vegas492 said:

When you pay a QB like we pay Rodgers, he had better make the receivers work.  It really is that simple.

I mean, really, look at the same size.  G-Mo isn't the athlete that ESB, Moore and MVS are....and was producing nicely with Rodgers after he got a little experience.  If this team can't go with our young kids, then our issues are much deeper than the WR's as it becomes a QB thing.  And that isn't getting fixed by bringing in a free agent WR who hasn't sniffed a thousand yard season yet in the NFL.

In fact, Humphries went for 260 yards, 622 yards, 631 yards and 816 yards in his first four seasons.

No one is convincing me that MVS and ESB can't hit or exceed those second year numbers.  Or third.  Or fourth.

Patience is a virtue we all should have learned from Adams.

I don't like this arguement.  Because he makes a lot of money he should be able to make any warm into a high end starting caliber NFL WR.  Aaron Rodgers has always made a lot of money and this was the first year ever we've thrusted mutiple low end WR prospects into the offense and expected him to turn them into high end starters.  Neither MVS or ESB weren't anything more than than completely ordinary in college yet because Aaron Rodgers makes a lot of money he should be turn any group of players into a championship caliper offense?

That sort of reasoning is why we went through some prime years of Brett Favre's career without an offense that wasn't going to get us to a Super Bowl.  He was forced to turn guys like Bill Schroeder and Corey Bradford into pro bowl caliber WRs and we weren't much better than .500 because of it.  

This offense has been as good as it has been for so long in large part because of the massive investment we've made into the WRs. Whether it's drafting high end prospects (Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Adams) or cutting big checks for 2nd or 3rd contracts (Driver, Jennings, Nelson, Cobb, Adams).  Aaron Rodgers is a great player but he's always had an a great receiving core.  Maybe you are right and our problems are much bigger.  If we're expecting the same outcome we seen in 2010 with a small fraction of the talent at WR we probably did sign the wrong guy.  We need a Tom Brady and unfortunetely there are only 1 of him.  

Patience also showed us that Jeff Janis, an elite athlete, isn't the all world WR everyone assumed he was because of his athletism in gym shorts.  

[Slinky]

Our WRs are gonna look better this year compared to last just based on playing in an offense that schemes them open. Unlike McCarthy's caveman-style offense. 

[vegas492]

Really Jeff Janis is where you are hanging your hat regarding patience?  Ignoring his specials value and his low end rookie contract?  He was great value for that contract.

And absolutely Rodgers should make those WR's go.  It is what he is paid to do.  Had he thrown a halfway decent long ball this year many people on here would be talking about MVS as the best "sleeper" prospect ever.

Favre helped Schroeder to a 999 yard season and a 1000 yard season.  No reason to think Rodgers isn't capable of that with the talent we have at WR.

Concerning those great former GB WR's....did they go elsewhere and do much of anything?  Perhaps Rodgers elevated their games.  No check that.  Rodgers DID elevate their games.  Just like he can our young kids.

It isn't like this is year 3 and we are still waiting for them to show something.  It is the end of year one.  Year one. 

[SSG]

1 hour ago, vegas492 said:

Really Jeff Janis is where you are hanging your hat regarding patience?  Ignoring his specials value and his low end rookie contract?  He was great value for that contract.

And absolutely Rodgers should make those WR's go.  It is what he is paid to do.  Had he thrown a halfway decent long ball this year many people on here would be talking about MVS as the best "sleeper" prospect ever.

Favre helped Schroeder to a 999 yard season and a 1000 yard season.  No reason to think Rodgers isn't capable of that with the talent we have at WR.

Concerning those great former GB WR's....did they go elsewhere and do much of anything?  Perhaps Rodgers elevated their games.  No check that.  Rodgers DID elevate their games.  Just like he can our young kids.

It isn't like this is year 3 and we are still waiting for them to show something.  It is the end of year one.  Year one. 

Why not Jeff Janis?  He's closest comp to any of those sophmore WRs.  Guys that are much better athletes than football players.  I don't like the Adams comp given how much superior of a WR he was coming out of Fresno.  His last year in college was more productive than the college careers of either MVS or EQB.  

Right.  Just like Jeff Janis.  MVS's inabilities to be a consistant WR are solely on thew shoulders of Aaron Rodgers.  I don't understand how quick some fans are to remove 100% of the accountability from these rookies.  EVERYTHING is the result of our terrible QB.  

You are right about Schroeder's production.  Favre turned him into a 1000 yard receiver and it was at a great price.  A 17-15 record and back to back seasons missing the playoffs.  A 2 seaosn span where he threw 9 more INTs than TDs.  Rodgers can surely turn MVS or EQS into 1000 yard receivers but he'll throw 12 to 15 more INTs and we're going to continue to watch the playoffs from home in part because of our terrible offense.  

How many young low end WR prospects have ever had success in Green Bay?  The list of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round WRs is extreamly long.  He's elevated the game of high end prospects or proven NFL players WRs.  We've never developed a low end WR prospect into a starting caliper WR since AR12 took over.  

It is year one for those rookies.  It's also year 2 of missing the playoffs in part because you've got a dumpster fire for an offense.  If we ignore the WR position this year and they aren't the stars they are made out to be it's going to take that much longer to get this offense back up to championship caliper.  Can anyone objectively say that this offense was good enough to win a Super Bowl last year with MVS as your #2 option at WR?  

[SSG]

2 hours ago, Nick_gb said:

 

I'm not saying that I'm against a FA WR. I'm merely stating that the Rookie WR's showed some flashes last year that we can all be pretty excited about and that was with a WR coach that was considered a fraud in that locker room. With a new scheme and a new coaching staff in place and a year under their belts then I expect some growth there. Whatever this Front Office decides to do to address our offense then I'll put my faith in their decision as at the end of the day they know far more than I ever will when it comes to constructing that roster. 

Sure they showed flashes.  They also had instances where they looked more like they belonged on the practice squad than in the starting lineup.  

I just want insurance.  There is no such thing as too much talent at WR and I don't want to be stuck looking at 2019's season like we are looking at this last one.  Our offense was horrid last year and I don't think it's coincidental that just so happened to be the year where we had EASILY the least talented WR core Rodgers has ever had to work with.  How many quility offenses around the NFL needed mutiple low end rookie WRs or undrafted free agents to contribute as quility starters?  Also, Allison is a UFA next season.  Could be forced to pay him like a high end starting WR if these sophmore's aren't the super stars they are made out to be.  

[vegas492]

22 minutes ago, SSG said:

Why not Jeff Janis?  He's closest comp to any of those sophmore WRs.  Guys that are much better athletes than football players.  I don't like the Adams comp given how much superior of a WR he was coming out of Fresno.  His last year in college was more productive than the college careers of either MVS or EQB.  ---I don't get why we are still talking about .  Jeff.  Freaking.  Janis.  The guy who never opened a playbook and was more interested in hunting than playing football.  In the regular season, all his years combined, did Janis get to the numbers that MVS put up last year?  I'll check it...Janis career= 17 catches for 200 yards.  MVS in his first year...38 catches, 581 yards.  I know you'll quickly turn this around to MVS getting playing time.  Uh, MVS leapfrogged Moore to get those catches.  Janis couldn't leapfrog anyone.  We can agree that Adams was more polished than either Janis or any of our rookie WR's, but that is where it stops to me.  Janis had nice value as a specials player.  MVS is better.  ESB is better.  We shall see with Moore.  And...since you brought Adams up.  38 for 446 in his rookie year, where he got a lot of playing time.  MVS outproduced him...and that's saying something.  Again, patience.  It worked for Adams.

Right.  Just like Jeff Janis.  MVS's inabilities to be a consistant WR are solely on thew shoulders of Aaron Rodgers.  I don't understand how quick some fans are to remove 100% of the accountability from these rookies.  EVERYTHING is the result of our terrible QB.  -Did you see the deep balls that Rodgers flat out missed?  Were those the fault of MVS?  Or of the bad WR coaching that has been reported?  Rodgers hits half his deep balls to MVS and he's closer to 800 yards.  And Rodgers hitting half those deep passes is more like what we've seen from Rodgers in his career versus what we saw last year.

You are right about Schroeder's production.  Favre turned him into a 1000 yard receiver and it was at a great price.  A 17-15 record and back to back seasons missing the playoffs.  A 2 seaosn span where he threw 9 more INTs than TDs.  Rodgers can surely turn MVS or EQS into 1000 yard receivers but he'll throw 12 to 15 more INTs and we're going to continue to watch the playoffs from home in part because of our terrible offense.  --Pure speculation on your part.  Poor argument.  

How many young low end WR prospects have ever had success in Green Bay?  The list of 4th, 5th, 6th and 7th round WRs is extreamly long.  He's elevated the game of high end prospects or proven NFL players WRs.  We've never developed a low end WR prospect into a starting caliper WR since AR12 took over.  -Driver did okay for himself.  Any of those lower end WR's produce 550 yards as a rookie?  How about the higher ones?  MVS is ahead of the curve.  Don't hate.  Just be happy that he looked the part for a rookie and look forward to the development of talent.

It is year one for those rookies.  It's also year 2 of missing the playoffs in part because you've got a dumpster fire for an offense.  If we ignore the WR position this year and they aren't the stars they are made out to be it's going to take that much longer to get this offense back up to championship caliper.  Can anyone objectively say that this offense was good enough to win a Super Bowl last year with MVS as your #2 option at WR?  --Dumpster fire because our QB failed last year.  O-line didn't help him.  Scheme failed.  Answer me this...is Adam Humphries the piece that turns the dumpster fire into a Super Bowl offense?  (Hint, the answer is no.)

I'll sum this up.  You don't like the young WR's.  I do.  I can be very critical of GB and sometimes get ripped for that.  I knew that going into last year, it was going to be the worst WR corp we've seen in a while.  I came away pleasantly surprised at the young kids.  Especially MVS and ESB.  I think that both have a home in GB and look forward to seeing their growth.

We can agree to disagree on the state of the WR position in GB.