goldfishwars Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 8 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: Yeah, but that #1 is burning a hole in their pocket. The Cards want Murray badly. Other teams are going to see this and adjust downward in what they offer.. Given that the Cards want Murray, but cant select him with Rosen still on the team, any team offering a 1st for Rosen now (even with Top 10 pick, only $7M left, etc...) should fire their GM. Only takes more than one interested team to drive up the price. Right now if I'm the QB-less Dolphins at 13 or the Redskins at 15, Rosen is looking like a pretty cheap return for a first round pick. Same for the Pats who might see Rosen as their QB of the future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucsfan333 Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: Only takes more than one interested team to drive up the price. Right now if I'm the QB-less Dolphins at 13 or the Redskins at 15, Rosen is looking like a pretty cheap return for a first round pick. Same for the Pats who might see Rosen as their QB of the future. Especially with all the dead money stuck in the QBs on their rosters. Rosen for ~$4M per is a helluva deal while either team eats the ridiculous contracts they made. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetsujin Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Regardless of his output in 2018, did Rosen show enough to warrant a 1st round selection? I'd be surprised if Miami trades for Rosen. I think they might try to trade down and restock the cupboard on the DL and OL. Four picks in the first 3 rounds would go a long way. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 12 minutes ago, freak_of_nature said: Regardless of his output in 2018, did Rosen show enough to warrant a 1st round selection? I'd be surprised if Miami trades for Rosen. I think they might try to trade down and restock the cupboard on the DL and OL. Four picks in the first 3 rounds would go a long way. That was a dreadful football team, wouldn't place too much stock in it. Nobody to throw to, nobody who could block in front of him. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 hour ago, goldfishwars said: Only takes more than one interested team to drive up the price. Right now if I'm the QB-less Dolphins at 13 or the Redskins at 15, Rosen is looking like a pretty cheap return for a first round pick. Same for the Pats who might see Rosen as their QB of the future. True. But again, most of the QB needy teams are already looking to get their QB in this draft (for example the Giants at #6). So not many teams out there to drive up the price. You make a good point though that it only takes one or two competitors, but I doubt the Pats spend a 1st on Rosen given that they expect Brady to play a few more years. So that leaves the Cards (if rumors are correct) desperate to get Murray. And they cant with Rosen on the roster. And yes, he was Top10, cheap, well liked,etc... but he also didnt show much last year, which can be concerning. Now I get it that he didnt have much to work with, but the fact remains that his wasnt an Andrew Luck-type of rookie production. That should give teams pause about if hes fools gold or not. Which is why, if Im either the Dolphins or Redskins I'm offering at most a 2nd + another pick (say a 5th) or a 3rd and 4th. But not a 1st. I realize we disagree. I just have played hardball too many times with motivated sellers. Desperation stinks and buyers can smell it. But who knows, right? I mean no one wouldve thought that a team would trade up a few spots to draft RG3 and give up 3 firsts and a second (FTR I opposed that trade when it happened), so what do I know? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfishwars Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 16 minutes ago, Thaiphoon said: I realize we disagree. I just have played hardball too many times with motivated sellers. Desperation stinks and buyers can smell it. But who knows, right? I mean no one wouldve thought that a team would trade up a few spots to draft RG3 and give up 3 firsts and a second (FTR I opposed that trade when it happened), so what do I know? The buyers could still be more desperate than the sellers in this situation though. That's usually the case when it comes to landing quarterbacks. Just depends how the Cards handle the negotiations, obviously they're allowing the Murray connection to be leaked to see what comes in. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaiphoon Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 9 minutes ago, goldfishwars said: The buyers could still be more desperate than the sellers in this situation though. That's usually the case when it comes to landing quarterbacks. Just depends how the Cards handle the negotiations, obviously they're allowing the Murray connection to be leaked to see what comes in. Very true 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Pauline, so take if FWIW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeezla Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 1 minute ago, Forge said: Pauline, so take if FWIW We'll know it's true if Rosen gets traded soon 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roger murdock Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 Why in the hell would you give up anything of value for a QB a team is so ready to bail on. Doesn't that just reek of buyers remorse? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forge Posted March 3, 2019 Share Posted March 3, 2019 17 minutes ago, roger murdock said: Why in the hell would you give up anything of value for a QB a team is so ready to bail on. Doesn't that just reek of buyers remorse? Not necessarily. Everything has context, nuance, layers. You can look at it one way - "they are ready to give up on him and move on, so he must suck" Or you can look at it another way - "A better option has presented itself that they have the ability to take advantage of". Different verbage, kind of the same concept, but a lot different. Layers / context: KK has no ties to Rosen. He didn't draft him, we have no idea if he even wanted him. New regimes often times mean new quarterbacks, we just haven't seen it done in this type of situation before. Murray is a better fit for KK's offense (which is what they are going to run), and a better fit for the Arizona team at this current point in time. That offensive line is one of the worst I have ever seen, and let's be frank...it's not going to get considerably better in the near future. Rosen is a statue back there. He's not going to be able to help them out. Murray is a freaking rabbit hopping along that is going to give defensive linemen fits in trying to bring down. He can create time, generate better offensively with a lack of talent around him. Remember how bad the Buffalo offense was for most of last season? They were on pace to be the worst offense ever by the dvoa. You know why they didn't? Josh Allen. Yeah, it's cool to bag on Allen as a thrower, but the fact of the matter is that offense was so much better because Allen, unlike Derek Anderson, Nate Peterman and Matt Barkley, has the mobility to compensate somewhat for a really bad offensive line. As it turns out, they didn't even finish with the worst offensive dvoa in the league last year and were actually closer to the 27th ranked offense (49ers) by dvoa than they were to finishing last. By weighed offensive dvoa, which weighs the most recent games heavier than earlier games (meaning when Josh Allen was healthy), they were actually 29th. Josh Allen was the reason they were better, and the reason they were better with Josh Allen was because he's a better running back than Zeke Elliot lol. Josh Rosen was thrown into the worst situation a rookie quarterback has seen since probably Alex Smith. They were dead last in offensive dvoa (3rd worst ever, and right in line with those 2005 49ers in Alex Smith's rookie season). By the end of the season, their offensive line consisted of a 7th round rookie left tackle, a 6th round rookie left guard who couldn't make the vikings team (which says a lot given how bad that offensive line was), a third round rookie center, a right guard that was signed as a street free agent 2 months into the season, and a right tackle who was a second year 5th round pick that had been cut by three teams since being drafted. You just can't do anything with that. The coaching staff looked very inept. It was a bad situation all around, and not one that Rosen could actually make better given his strengths and weaknesses as a player. What kind of evaluation are you going to get from a season like that where the situation was so dire? There's nothing wrong with saying player B just happens to be better than player A. That doesn't necessarily mean that player A is a bad player. Just that player B might be better. So there should still be some value there for teams. I don't think that they are getting a first round pick or anything, but I don't think that you can say, "well, they are ready to move on from him after one year, that's got to be bad, so I have no interest". 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 13 hours ago, Thaiphoon said: Yeah, but that #1 is burning a hole in their pocket. The Cards want Murray badly. Other teams are going to see this and adjust downward in what they offer.. Given that the Cards want Murray, but cant select him with Rosen still on the team, any team offering a 1st for Rosen now (even with Top 10 pick, only $7M left, etc...) should fire their GM. Until they select Kyler Murray first, the value on Rosen is pretty static. And right now, I think you can only really make an argument that there are only 2 QBs that might have more value than Rosen: Murray and Haskins. And we have enough teams that are in need of a QB: NY Giants, Jacksonville, Denver, Miami, and Washington. And that doesn't even include teams who could be looking for the QBOTF: Oakland, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, Seattle, LA Chargers, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
11sanchez11 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 12 hours ago, freak_of_nature said: I'd be surprised if Miami trades for Rosen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sdrawkcab321 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 First smart move Arizona has done in a long time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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