Jump to content

Is Philip Rivers a HoF QB?


Danger

Rivers HoF?  

75 members have voted

  1. 1. Does Philip Rivers belong in the NFL Hall of Fame?

    • Yes, First Ballot
    • Yes, after a few years
    • Yes, after many years
    • No, never.


Recommended Posts

14 minutes ago, LETSGOBROWNIES said:

There’s still time.

Perhaps instead of Brady, Rivers can hitch his wagon to Edelman’s star and ride his coattails to Canton.

He's going to need the leg of Steven Gustkowski to do it along with Matthew Shlater as his gunner on special teams. Only then can we talk about how Rivers also carried his team singlehandedly to a super bowl championship.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, jjab360 said:

It's crazy how Rivers is being talked about in this thread, thanks for some actual context.

That's not context. It's actually removing context. He's listing cumulative stats knowing full well that Rivers played 4 seasons before Ryan and 7 season before Cam.. 

If you actually put in even the smallest amount of effort on their stats

Yard per game:

Rivers: 257

Ryan: 268

TD's per game

Rivers: 1.76

Ryan: 1.69

Completion percentage

Rivers: 64.5

Ryan: 65.3

Passer Rating

Rivers: 95.6

Ryan: 94.9

INT %

Rivers: 2.5

Ryan: 2.1

Their stats are virtually neck and neck across the board. The literaly only difference is that Rivers is older and he compiled them for longer and he's had more Pro Bowl berths (which is still 8 for Rivers and 4 for Ryan with Rivers having 4 more seasons so....). Nobody in this thread could find a single statistical difference between the two of them. And for all Rivers Pro Bowls amount to much, Matt Ryan has an MVP which Rivers doesn't have AND HAS NEVER GOT CLOSE TO HAVING, Ryan has an All Pro which Rivers never got, Ryan has an OPOY which Rivers never got, and Ryan went to the Super Bowl, while Rivers never did. 

Also for Cam he's being even more desceptive because he's deliberately ignoring that Cam's best stats are rushing stats and he's going to finish 1st all time in rushing stats for a QB across the board along with his own MVP and his own Super Bowl appearance. 

He's also even more full of it because he's trying to say Cam and Ryan combine for 9 4000 yard seasons while Rivers has 8. What he's deliberately failing to mention is that 8 of those combined 9 belong to Ryan. So Ryan in 4 less years has the exact same amount of 4000 yard seasons as Rivers. Which is actually a plus for Ryan and knock on Rivers. He's pretty much trying to paint a false picture and trying to get away with it there. That's your context that he added. 

Meanwhile the "two combined over 100 passer rating" is really 2 for Ryan. So it's 2 vs 5 with one guy having 4 extra seasons. It also neglects that overall their career passer rating difference is 0.7. He also neglects to say that Rivers has more sun 90 passer ratings than Ryan. 

He basically just twisted an argument together and hoped nobody would catch it to make his case for Rivers

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Rivers is being over-estimated because he's better than Eli and on par with Ben when it comes to ability and statistics. The truth is probably closer to the fact that they're all borderline Hall of Famers who are going to get in or sit out based on post season success.

Rivers has been one of my favorite players, but statistically and in terms of accomplishments there isn't a big gap between him and Carson Palmer and no one is ever going to argue for Palmer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, lancerman said:

That's not context. It's actually removing context. He's listing cumulative stats knowing full well that Rivers played 4 seasons before Ryan and 7 season before Cam.. 

If you actually put in even the smallest amount of effort on their stats

Yard per game:

Rivers: 257

Ryan: 268

TD's per game

Rivers: 1.76

Ryan: 1.69

Completion percentage

Rivers: 64.5

Ryan: 65.3

Passer Rating

Rivers: 95.6

Ryan: 94.9

INT %

Rivers: 2.5

Ryan: 2.1

Their stats are virtually neck and neck across the board. The literaly only difference is that Rivers is older and he compiled them for longer and he's had more Pro Bowl berths (which is still 8 for Rivers and 4 for Ryan with Rivers having 4 more seasons so....). Nobody in this thread could find a single statistical difference between the two of them. And for all Rivers Pro Bowls amount to much, Matt Ryan has an MVP which Rivers doesn't have AND HAS NEVER GOT CLOSE TO HAVING, Ryan has an All Pro which Rivers never got, Ryan has an OPOY which Rivers never got, and Ryan went to the Super Bowl, while Rivers never did. 

Also for Cam he's being even more desceptive because he's deliberately ignoring that Cam's best stats are rushing stats and he's going to finish 1st all time in rushing stats for a QB across the board along with his own MVP and his own Super Bowl appearance. 

He's also even more full of it because he's trying to say Cam and Ryan combine for 9 4000 yard seasons while Rivers has 8. What he's deliberately failing to mention is that 8 of those combined 9 belong to Ryan. So Ryan in 4 less years has the exact same amount of 4000 yard seasons as Rivers. Which is actually a plus for Ryan and knock on Rivers. He's pretty much trying to paint a false picture and trying to get away with it there. That's your context that he added. 

Meanwhile the "two combined over 100 passer rating" is really 2 for Ryan. So it's 2 vs 5 with one guy having 4 extra seasons. It also neglects that overall their career passer rating difference is 0.7. He also neglects to say that Rivers has more sun 90 passer ratings than Ryan. 

He basically just twisted an argument together and hoped nobody would catch it to make his case for Rivers

 

 

You cant even post the correct stats Rivers has 10 seasons with 4000 yds. Only 3 qbs in NFL history have more and all played several seasons more than Rivers.

 

Rivers has the higher td%, passer rating, ya, ay/a, ny/a, any/a. So nearly every single stat.

If ya take away 1 season from Ryan. What do you have? No mvp, no all pro no sb berth, 3 probowls, 1 season with 100 passer rating.

You can take any 1 season away from Rivers and he still has 7 probowls, 4 seasons with 100 plus passer rating.

I dont know how many more times i need to tell you this. HOF voters do not overvalue single seasons. This is a CAREER ACHIEVEMENT. When you look at career totality, Rivers DWARFS Ryan.  The fact you are bringing up Cams numbers in rushing is a joke. Cam isnt in the same stratosphere as Rivers in terms of HOF bid. The fact you think he is, further illustrates you as a person who values singularity over totality (literally no voter for the HOF committee has demonstrated that same short sightedness as you are) im just baffled why you are so dug in on a singularity POV over totality for a career achievement.  Vick isnt sniffing the HOF and he is the most dynamic rushing qb ever. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Malik said:

Rivers is being over-estimated because he's better than Eli and on par with Ben when it comes to ability and statistics. The truth is probably closer to the fact that they're all borderline Hall of Famers who are going to get in or sit out based on post season success.

Rivers has been one of my favorite players, but statistically and in terms of accomplishments there isn't a big gap between him and Carson Palmer and no one is ever going to argue for Palmer.

Come on fam. How can ya say Rivers is one of ya favorite players and then be disingenuous and compare him to Palmer?

Palmer is a 3 time probowler to Rivers 8.

Palmer has 6 seasons with 4000 yds, Rivers has 10 (still going)

Palmer has 6 seasons with 25+ td passes, Rivers has 11.

Palmer has 2 seasons with 100 passer rating, Rivers 5.

Palmer has 1 season with 65% comp, Rivers has 7.

Ya, ay/a, td%, int%, pass rating. Rivers is significantly better at every statline.

Even more reaffiriming for Rivers is he has done this with 4 different Head coaches. No on can confuse him with being a system qb or protected by who his HC is. 

They arent close. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

as of right now, the numbers are good enough to get him in eventually; definitely not first ballot though.  Even though he doesn't currently have a lot of the accolades that many of the others have, he's been a top 5 QB for most, if not all of his career during what I consider a golden age at the position.

If he can win either a MVP award or at least a SB appearance before he retires, I think he'll be a lock.

11 hours ago, lancerman said:

Nope. No Qb without either a Super Bowl, an MVP or All Pro has ever made it.

Matt Ryan has the same stats and an MVP, OPOY, All Pro and a Super Bowl appearance. Same with Cam and he’ll lead every QB in rushing stats 

So no. No shot unless he adds to his resume 

I sure hope that's a joke... You're seriously suggesting Cam Newton will get consideration, based on rushing stats, but Rivers has 'no shot'?  

Newton, while he may have a MVP,  aside from that one season, he's been average or worse since he's been in the league.  His MVP season was an obvious anomaly.   Rivers on the other hand, has been a consistent top 5 QB for his entire career.  There is no comparison here. 

To an extent, I really don't have a problem with Matt Ryan getting in; not sure why everyone keeps using him as a reason to not let Rivers in;  Ryan is a legit top 5 QB; has been for a while, and will probably play another 7-8 years.  I have almost no doubt he'll get in at some point.

but seriously, to bring up Cam is laughable.  and by the way, his precious rushing stats (which nobody should care about, by virtue of him being a QB) probably shaved 5 years off of his career, which means he'll likely never acquire the passing numbers to ultimately get consideration.

12 hours ago, x0x said:

Yes but after 4-6 years of eligibility. 

He'll be in a glut with Brady-Ben-Rodgers maybe even Eli so won't get in those years plus other positions. 

Warren Moon and Dan Fouts are the precedent for him.

Moon and Fouts really lowered the bar for the HOF, particularly Moon.  Moon had 2 legitimately great seasons 90 and 95.  Outside of that, he was ok, but nothing special.  At no point was Moon a top5 QB during his era, albeit a very competitive era, but still.   Fouts really doesn't belong either IMO, but at least he was one of the best for a stretch in the early 80s, but like Moon, he threw it to the other team too much.   Bottom line, with these two in, Rivers easily gets in, just not first ballot. 

Moon and Fouts are the precedent for guys like Bledsoe, Palmer, and Romo, and really a host of others who should be definite NOs, but now have arguments.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

46 minutes ago, Bearerofnews said:

You cant even post the correct stats Rivers has 10 seasons with 4000 yds. Only 3 qbs in NFL history have more and all played several seasons more than Rivers.

Ryan has 8 and has been a starter for two less years than Rivers. 

Quote

Rivers has the higher td%, passer rating, ya, ay/a, ny/a, any/a. So nearly every single stat.

Ryan has higher completion %, yards per game, and lower interception %. Not to mention, the two are neck-and-neck in nearly all of these statistics. 

Quote

If ya take away 1 season from Ryan. What do you have? No mvp, no all pro no sb berth, 3 probowls, 1 season with 100 passer rating.

You can take any 1 season away from Rivers and he still has 7 probowls, 4 seasons with 100 plus passer rating.

Which would be fine, if we were emitting seasons from players’ careers. How many MVPs does Marino have without 84? How many SBs does Brees have without 09? Rodgers without 10? Favre without 96? 

Bringing up Rivers’ resume is fine, but mitigating Ryan’s, on the basis of it happening in a single season, doesn’t make sense. 

Quote

I dont know how many more times i need to twll you this. HOF voters do not overvalue single seasons. This is a CAREER ACHIEVEMENT. When you look at career totality, Rivers DWARFS Ryan.  

Rivers has played in 38 more games...

Rivers and Ryan clearly have a very similar career path. Using your career in totality standard, Rivers has a very slight edge in statistics (per game, obviously bulk is in his favor since he’s played 2+ more seasons) and Ryan has a SB appearance + MVP/All-Pro to his name (which matter in a HOF conversation). 

FWIW, I don’t think either belong in the Hall. But they’ve got very similar resumes - Rivers has just played a little longer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  Passing Rushing
Rk Player From To Cmp Att Yds TD Int Sk Yds Att Yds TD
1 Tom Brady 2000 2018 22.3 34.9 262.1 1.9 0.6 1.8 10.9 2.2 3.7 0.1
2 Drew Brees 2001 2018 24.9 37.1 282.0 2.0 0.9 1.5 10.7 1.8 2.9 0.1
3 Peyton Manning 1998 2015 23.0 35.3 270.5 2.0 0.9 1.1 7.3 1.6 2.5 0.1
4 Philip Rivers 2004 2018 21.3 33.0 257.8 1.8 0.8 1.9 11.8 1.7 2.7 0.0
5 Aaron Rodgers 2005 2018 21.6 33.3 260.3 2.0 0.5 2.5 16.3 3.4 17.8 0.2

Playoffs Totals

 
      Passing Rushing Receiving
Rk Player From To CarAV G QBrec Cmp Att Cmp% Yds TD Rate Lng Int Sk Yds Y/A AY/A NY/A ANY/A Att Yds TD Y/A Lng Rec Yds TD Y/R Lng
1 Tom Brady 2000 2018 175 269 207-60-0 6004 9375 64.0 70514 517 97.6 99 171 473 2944 7.5 7.80 6.86 7.13 580 1003 19 1.7 22 3 65 0 21.7 36
2 Drew Brees 2001 2018 164 264 155-108-0 6586 9783 67.3 74437 520 97.7 98 233 395 2813 7.6 7.60 7.04 7.03 471 758 22 1.6 22 8 74 1 9.3 38
3 Peyton Manning 1998 2015 177 266 186-79-0 6125 9380 65.3 71940 539 96.5 86 251 303 1953 7.7 7.61 7.23 7.17 431 667 18 1.5 33 1 -2 0 -2.0 0
4 Philip Rivers 2004 2018 140 212 118-90-0 4518 7000 64.5 54656 374 95.6 81 178 411 2492 7.8 7.73 7.04 6.97 353 580 3 1.6 18 0 -9 0   0
5 Aaron Rodgers 2005 2018 135 165 100-57-1 3560 5492 64.8 42944 338 103.1 93 80 412 2684 7.8 8.39 6.82 7.35 568 2939 27 5.2 35 1 -1 0 -1.0 0

I know the above numbers are a little tough to read. But they give some perspective that Rivers numbers are close to the best of his era and in some cases better.

Peyton 14 seasons with 4000 yds

Brees 12 seasons with 4000 yds

Brady 10 seasons with 4000 yds

Rivers 10 seasons with 4000 yds

Rodgers 7 seasons with 4000 yds

 

Peyton 16 seasons with 25 tds

Brady 14 seasons with 25 tds

Brees 13 season with 25 tds

Rivers 11 seasons with 25 tds

Rodgers 9 seasons with 25 tds

 

*min of 350 atts

Brees 8 seasons with 100 passer rating

Peyton 6 seasons with 100 passer rating

Brady 6 seasons with 100 passer rating

Rodgers 6 seasons with 100 passer rating

Rivers 5 seasons with 100 passer rating

 

* min 350 atts

Brees 12 seasons with 65% comp or higher

Peyton 11 seasons with 65% comp or higher

Brady 7 seasons with 65% comp or higher

Rivers 7 seasons with 65% comp or higher

Rodgers 5 seasons with 65% comp or higher

 

*min 350 att

Peyton 8 seasons with 7.8 ypa or higher

Brees 8 seasons with 7.8 ypa or higher

Rivers 7 seasons with 7.8 ypa or higher

Brady 5 seasons with 7.8 ypa or higher

Rodgers 4 seasons with 7.8 ypa or higher

 

You can say these are random numbers useds as metrical barometers. But they arent. These are stats and typical industry markers for these specific stats.

I can dive into more like any/a and ay/a but its more of the same. Yes im a Chargers fan, but its crazy how Rivers' over a decade career of HOF play is being poo-pood because he is missing a singular moment or identifier (mvp, all pro, sb berth or ring) these are icings, they generally are Outliers for most qbs in terms of totality of their career. They arent their CAREER.

HOF is based on career, not an achievement they might of acquired from 1 or 2 seasons. Voters have proven that time and time again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, Yin-Yang said:

Ryan has 8 and has been a starter for two less years than Rivers. 

Ryan has higher completion %, yards per game, and lower interception %. Not to mention, the two are neck-and-neck in nearly all of these statistics. 

Which would be fine, if we were emitting seasons from players’ careers. How many MVPs does Marino have without 84? How many SBs does Brees have without 09? Rodgers without 10? Favre without 96? 

Bringing up Rivers’ resume is fine, but mitigating Ryan’s, on the basis of it happening in a single season, doesn’t make sense. 

Rivers has played in 38 more games...

Rivers and Ryan clearly have a very similar career path. Using your career in totality standard, Rivers has a very slight edge in statistics (per game, obviously bulk is in his favor since he’s played 2+ more seasons) and Ryan has a SB appearance + MVP/All-Pro to his name (which matter in a HOF conversation). 

FWIW, I don’t think either belong in the Hall. But they’ve got very similar resumes - Rivers has just played a little longer.

That's my point. If you can remove or place someone in the HOF based off a single season, they aren't a HOF.  This is a totality achievement not a singular achievement.  

HOF is consistently great. Rivers career numbers vs his era contemparies show he has been consistently great. Using outlier singular achievements like 1 sb or 2 mvps or 1 or 2 all pros isnt how a HOF career is made. 

If the difference between Rivers career and other HOFers is... he has better stats, more probowls and more wins, but they had this 1 magical season where they got an mvp or a ring or an all pro and that creates higher value than the other accumulation achievements, it makes no logical sense to me.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...