AKRNA Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 15 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: So if we can't trade Keenum, we might as well hold onto him, no? Well, we do save $11m against the cap by releasing him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsthomp2007 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 9 minutes ago, AKRNA said: Well, we do save $11m against the cap by releasing him. That could probably by you something. And, I can't imagine Garrett Grayson being that much worse than Keenum, and I think he is playing for breakfast burritos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Just posting this from another forum: Pretty good ringer article of the last few years and our lack of success with QBs https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/2/14/18224843/joe-flacco-trade-john-elway-denver-broncos-quarterbacks-history Also, this was linked to in the article: https://www.pro-football-reference.com/play-index/tiny.fcgi?id=Yin0X That shows all of the QBs that have started at least 25 games since 2015. Joe Flacco ranks at or near the bottom in: Adjusted net yards per pass attempt, Touchdown percentage, passing rating, and yards gained per attempt. I just do not understand why people think was an upgrade. At best, it was a lateral move. The more I think about it, the less I like this move. Why give up a 4th and take on 18 million dollars for another horrible QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 Jeez Elvis Dumervil a former Bronco and teammate of Flacco in some of his best seasons is trashing the move. Not a good sign. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
champ11 Posted February 14, 2019 Author Share Posted February 14, 2019 40 minutes ago, thebestever6 said: Jeez Elvis Dumervil a former Bronco and teammate of Flacco in some of his best seasons is trashing the move. Not a good sign. Bronco GREAT Elvis Dumervil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebestever6 Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 30 minutes ago, champ11 said: Bronco GREAT Elvis Dumervil Yeah he was a beast still get mad about the fax mess up. Even though ware helped me move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Helicopter Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 3 hours ago, AKRNA said: Well, we do save $11m against the cap by releasing him. Is that the full picture? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-the-broncos-reported-plan-for-case-keenum-after-pulling-off-surprising-trade-for-joe-flacco/ "If the Broncos end up releasing Keenum, it will get even more expensive. Not only will they take a $10 million dead cap hit, but they'll have to pay Keenum $7 million in cash for the 2019 season. Keenum's two-year deal included $25 million in guaranteed money, with the team guaranteeing $7 million of his 2019 base salary. Basically, if Keenum gets cut, he'll have made $25 million for his one season in Denver, which is fantastic money for a quarterback who led his team to a 6-10 record in 2018." Why on earth would we cut him? Keep him until he becomes a roster casualty or someone trades for him, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 14, 2019 Share Posted February 14, 2019 59 minutes ago, The Helicopter said: Is that the full picture? https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/heres-the-broncos-reported-plan-for-case-keenum-after-pulling-off-surprising-trade-for-joe-flacco/ "If the Broncos end up releasing Keenum, it will get even more expensive. Not only will they take a $10 million dead cap hit, but they'll have to pay Keenum $7 million in cash for the 2019 season. Keenum's two-year deal included $25 million in guaranteed money, with the team guaranteeing $7 million of his 2019 base salary. Basically, if Keenum gets cut, he'll have made $25 million for his one season in Denver, which is fantastic money for a quarterback who led his team to a 6-10 record in 2018." Why on earth would we cut him? Keep him until he becomes a roster casualty or someone trades for him, right? Not the full picture, just a net summary. As to the bolded, the $7m salary is part of the dead cap, not in addition to it. If we keep him we have to pay him $21m. If we cut him it costs $10m, hence a net savings of $11m. Not really chicken feed. $11m helps fill out some roster spots in a cap strapped year. If he's not part of the plan there's no way I'd keep him around. Thats throwing good money after bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 With Flacco don't you feel like you just signed a guy who might be just good enough to keep you from a high pick in 2020, but has no chance of winning a SB? Feels like when Bears signed Glennon. Flacco is better than Glennon, but he doesn't inspire a lot of hope. I hated the Glennon signing. I just hoped they would lose enough to get a QB in 2018. At least Bears drafted a QB that year even if they picked wrong one. Flacco got beat out by a non-throwing running QB who was 32nd pick of draft. I don't know much about about 2019 QBs, but if there is one you'd like I'd rather take one of them or just tank for 2020. Why waste money on Flacco? Apparently there isn't a lot of love for 2019 QB class. They said same thing about 2017 class though and Trubisky, Watson and Mahomes each won their division in 2018. You can apportion credit how you like, still happened. I still can't believe Broncos passed on a QB in 2018 draft. Same with Giants. You got good players, but still. Bad move IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DreamKid Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 It's generally accepted by Raven fans that Joe finally started getting over his injury stuff Post Bye 2017. Then all the talk in the offseason was about how great he looked, his best camp ever etc etc. From Post Bye 2017 to his final game in 2018 his stat line was- 397/ Comp 627/ Att 4,432/ Yards 22/ TD 9/ INT 88.63/ QBR ^^^That's 16 games. - one of those nine picks was a blown call by the refs where Kevin Byard didn't catch the ball fwiw - Flacco's QBR only dropped below 88.0 six times in that 16 game span. 1. 2017 Hou 72.5 - We won the game 23-16. 2. 2017 Cin 69.7 - The infamous 4th & 12 game, they scored with 53 secs left to deny us our playoff birth. We lost 31-27. 3. 2018 Cin 76.0 - We lost 34-23. Cinci has always been Flacco's toughest out for some reason. This was also a Road TNF game. 4. 2018 Cle 60.0 - We lost 12-9. Crabtree dropped a GW TD(Go figure) from Joe. Flacco had a redzone throw that was tipped at the line and picked early in the game. 5. 2018 Car 56.8 - We lost 36-21. Total abortion of a game. All phases failed- offense, defense, STs. 6. 2018 Pit 77.1 - We lost 23-16. Flacco injured his hip on the first drive of the game. Tuitt jumped early and hit him. Turned out to be a 5 week injury, but he finished the game. In that 16 game span. Flacco had sub par play calling and sub par talent around him. Joe is Playoff Proven, Super Bowl Proven, and Weather Proven. The only current issue with Flacco is the regression that can set in while he's dealing with injuries or just coming off of one. Post 2014 had been rough for Flacco. We steadily lost our best surrounding talent on offense and injuries started dragging Joe's game hard on top of it. Even the harshest critics of Flacco will tell you he was a different(better) player this year. There isn't a single loss from this season that us as fans pinned squarely on his back. I get the skepticism on your guy's parts, but I really think you have cause to be excited. 9 minutes ago, dll2000 said: Flacco got beat out by a non-throwing running QB who was 32nd pick of draft. This isn't true. Flacco got injured. Harbaugh was on the hot seat this season and the smart play was to ride the hot/winning hand(Jackson). No one could blame him for doing so, but if he had gone back to Flacco and for some reason we lost. It would look like he committed a grave and termination worthy error. No one to this day believes Jackson is a better QB in the traditional sense than Flacco. Lamar simply facilitates a unique attack that our coaches value. Best wishes to Joe, he's a great guy and player. I hope he plays well for you and we see you in the Playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKRNA Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 11 minutes ago, DreamKid said: It's generally accepted by Raven fans that Joe finally started getting over his injury stuff Post Bye 2017. Then all the talk in the offseason was about how great he looked, his best camp ever etc etc. From Post Bye 2017 to his final game in 2018 his stat line was- 397/ Comp 627/ Att 4,432/ Yards 22/ TD 9/ INT 88.63/ QBR ^^^That's 16 games. - one of those nine picks was a blown call by the refs where Kevin Byard didn't catch the ball fwiw - Flacco's QBR only dropped below 88.0 six times in that 16 game span. 1. 2017 Hou 72.5 - We won the game 23-16. 2. 2017 Cin 69.7 - The infamous 4th & 12 game, they scored with 53 secs left to deny us our playoff birth. We lost 31-27. 3. 2018 Cin 76.0 - We lost 34-23. Cinci has always been Flacco's toughest out for some reason. This was also a Road TNF game. 4. 2018 Cle 60.0 - We lost 12-9. Crabtree dropped a GW TD(Go figure) from Joe. Flacco had a redzone throw that was tipped at the line and picked early in the game. 5. 2018 Car 56.8 - We lost 36-21. Total abortion of a game. All phases failed- offense, defense, STs. 6. 2018 Pit 77.1 - We lost 23-16. Flacco injured his hip on the first drive of the game. Tuitt jumped early and hit him. Turned out to be a 5 week injury, but he finished the game. In that 16 game span. Flacco had sub par play calling and sub par talent around him. Joe is Playoff Proven, Super Bowl Proven, and Weather Proven. The only current issue with Flacco is the regression that can set in while he's dealing with injuries or just coming off of one. Post 2014 had been rough for Flacco. We steadily lost our best surrounding talent on offense and injuries started dragging Joe's game hard on top of it. Even the harshest critics of Flacco will tell you he was a different(better) player this year. There isn't a single loss from this season that us as fans pinned squarely on his back. I get the skepticism on your guy's parts, but I really think you have cause to be excited. This isn't true. Flacco got injured. Harbaugh was on the hot seat this season and the smart play was to ride the hot/winning hand(Jackson). No one could blame him for doing so, but if he had gone back to Flacco and for some reason we lost. It would look like he committed a grave and termination worthy error. No one to this day believes Jackson is a better QB in the traditional sense than Flacco. Lamar simply facilitates a unique attack that our coaches value. Best wishes to Joe, he's a great guy and player. I hope he plays well for you and we see you in the Playoffs. Good post, thanks for the info from a Raven fans perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoundrel Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 13 hours ago, DreamKid said: It's generally accepted by Raven fans that Joe finally started getting over his injury stuff Post Bye 2017. Then all the talk in the offseason was about how great he looked, his best camp ever etc etc. From Post Bye 2017 to his final game in 2018 his stat line was- 397/ Comp 627/ Att 4,432/ Yards 22/ TD 9/ INT 88.63/ QBR ^^^That's 16 games. - one of those nine picks was a blown call by the refs where Kevin Byard didn't catch the ball fwiw - Flacco's QBR only dropped below 88.0 six times in that 16 game span. 1. 2017 Hou 72.5 - We won the game 23-16. 2. 2017 Cin 69.7 - The infamous 4th & 12 game, they scored with 53 secs left to deny us our playoff birth. We lost 31-27. 3. 2018 Cin 76.0 - We lost 34-23. Cinci has always been Flacco's toughest out for some reason. This was also a Road TNF game. 4. 2018 Cle 60.0 - We lost 12-9. Crabtree dropped a GW TD(Go figure) from Joe. Flacco had a redzone throw that was tipped at the line and picked early in the game. 5. 2018 Car 56.8 - We lost 36-21. Total abortion of a game. All phases failed- offense, defense, STs. 6. 2018 Pit 77.1 - We lost 23-16. Flacco injured his hip on the first drive of the game. Tuitt jumped early and hit him. Turned out to be a 5 week injury, but he finished the game. In that 16 game span. Flacco had sub par play calling and sub par talent around him. Joe is Playoff Proven, Super Bowl Proven, and Weather Proven. The only current issue with Flacco is the regression that can set in while he's dealing with injuries or just coming off of one. Post 2014 had been rough for Flacco. We steadily lost our best surrounding talent on offense and injuries started dragging Joe's game hard on top of it. Even the harshest critics of Flacco will tell you he was a different(better) player this year. There isn't a single loss from this season that us as fans pinned squarely on his back. I get the skepticism on your guy's parts, but I really think you have cause to be excited. This isn't true. Flacco got injured. Harbaugh was on the hot seat this season and the smart play was to ride the hot/winning hand(Jackson). No one could blame him for doing so, but if he had gone back to Flacco and for some reason we lost. It would look like he committed a grave and termination worthy error. No one to this day believes Jackson is a better QB in the traditional sense than Flacco. Lamar simply facilitates a unique attack that our coaches value. Best wishes to Joe, he's a great guy and player. I hope he plays well for you and we see you in the Playoffs. You are invited back at any time to cheer on Joe’s success Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncosFan2010 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 I think he is clearly an upgrade to Case, and easily our best QB since Peyton. The issue is Kubiak whispering into Elway's ear last summer and signing the telegraphed bust Case Keenum. Flacco is a win-now QB, but to win-now we need a huge talent infusion both in FA and the draft. We need another 2018 draft, and 3-4 FA 'hits' to become playoff relevant. Having the salary of both Flacco and Case makes 3-4 FA 'hits' very hard to do. Anyone know what our cap space looks like after this? For all my pessimism, its going to be great to have a QB that can push the ball down the field for the first time since Brock in our SB season. Thats nuts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BroncoSojia Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 1 hour ago, BroncosFan2010 said: I think he is clearly an upgrade to Case, and easily our best QB since Peyton. The issue is Kubiak whispering into Elway's ear last summer and signing the telegraphed bust Case Keenum. Flacco is a win-now QB, but to win-now we need a huge talent infusion both in FA and the draft. We need another 2018 draft, and 3-4 FA 'hits' to become playoff relevant. Having the salary of both Flacco and Case makes 3-4 FA 'hits' very hard to do. Anyone know what our cap space looks like after this? For all my pessimism, its going to be great to have a QB that can push the ball down the field for the first time since Brock in our SB season. Thats nuts. I keep reading this like it's so obviously true, but is it? What has Flacco shown in the last 4 years to make this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dll2000 Posted February 15, 2019 Share Posted February 15, 2019 15 hours ago, DreamKid said: It's generally accepted by Raven fans that Joe finally started getting over his injury stuff Post Bye 2017. Then all the talk in the offseason was about how great he looked, his best camp ever etc etc. From Post Bye 2017 to his final game in 2018 his stat line was- 397/ Comp 627/ Att 4,432/ Yards 22/ TD 9/ INT 88.63/ QBR ^^^That's 16 games. - one of those nine picks was a blown call by the refs where Kevin Byard didn't catch the ball fwiw - Flacco's QBR only dropped below 88.0 six times in that 16 game span. 1. 2017 Hou 72.5 - We won the game 23-16. 2. 2017 Cin 69.7 - The infamous 4th & 12 game, they scored with 53 secs left to deny us our playoff birth. We lost 31-27. 3. 2018 Cin 76.0 - We lost 34-23. Cinci has always been Flacco's toughest out for some reason. This was also a Road TNF game. 4. 2018 Cle 60.0 - We lost 12-9. Crabtree dropped a GW TD(Go figure) from Joe. Flacco had a redzone throw that was tipped at the line and picked early in the game. 5. 2018 Car 56.8 - We lost 36-21. Total abortion of a game. All phases failed- offense, defense, STs. 6. 2018 Pit 77.1 - We lost 23-16. Flacco injured his hip on the first drive of the game. Tuitt jumped early and hit him. Turned out to be a 5 week injury, but he finished the game. In that 16 game span. Flacco had sub par play calling and sub par talent around him. Joe is Playoff Proven, Super Bowl Proven, and Weather Proven. The only current issue with Flacco is the regression that can set in while he's dealing with injuries or just coming off of one. Post 2014 had been rough for Flacco. We steadily lost our best surrounding talent on offense and injuries started dragging Joe's game hard on top of it. Even the harshest critics of Flacco will tell you he was a different(better) player this year. There isn't a single loss from this season that us as fans pinned squarely on his back. I get the skepticism on your guy's parts, but I really think you have cause to be excited. This isn't true. Flacco got injured. Harbaugh was on the hot seat this season and the smart play was to ride the hot/winning hand(Jackson). No one could blame him for doing so, but if he had gone back to Flacco and for some reason we lost. It would look like he committed a grave and termination worthy error. No one to this day believes Jackson is a better QB in the traditional sense than Flacco. Lamar simply facilitates a unique attack that our coaches value. Best wishes to Joe, he's a great guy and player. I hope he plays well for you and we see you in the Playoffs. Those are partial truths. If that was all true Flacco would still be on the Ravens as their best option win now. Fine to ride a hot hand at time. Season is over now and a new one begins. They feel Jackson gives them better chance to win. You could argue playing the young QB gives them more rope, but if they felt they could win more games with Flacco he would be there. He isn’t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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