2018 Starting Quarterback

[LinderFournette]

6 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Exactly.  You look at the sort of supporting cast that Alex Smith has in KC right now, and that's the sort of dominant spread you've gotta put together to go anywhere serious with him at the helm.  If not even better.  Presuming they're moving on from him, should be telling.  That requires serious investment.

To be fair we have better wrs then the chiefs. 

Dede can be a poormans tyreek hill. 

 

If your saying we needibg a te thats obvious

[Tugboat]

7 hours ago, LinderFournette said:

To be fair we have better wrs then the chiefs. 

Dede can be a poormans tyreek hill. 

 

If your saying we needibg a te thats obvious

We'd absolutely need a stud TE from somewhere.  That's always been a big part of Smith's bread and butter.  And we've got squat.

If you do "poor man's" this or that, you're probably going to get "poor man's Alex Smith" as well.

 

Point being...whether it's more weapons, a bigtime TE, more playmakers on defense, or just more OLine help for a guy like Smith who has a tendency to take sacks; if we're gonna do Alex Smith for a few years, we need to be spending those other premium assets to make him comfortable.  Not on a QB prospect to sit on the bench, which helps Smith none.  You can't just transplant him out of that KC situation and expect the same results, if you don't surround him with the right talent (on the field, and on the sidelines, in the booth, etc.).

[Tugboat]

So, this is obviously venturing into full blown silly season crazy talk territory, but...

 

What if the NY Giants actually fall apart as badly as it looks like they might?  They lost basically every receiver good they have this week. Their OLine is a trainwreck and they have zero running game.  Their top DLinemen haven't been in the lineup consistently.  They haven't won a game.  They look legitimately about to fall off a cliff.

If that happens and they end up in contention for a top pick, and a new "QB of the Future"...say they pull the trigger on that.  Would we not be a team that might inquire about Eli Manning's availability for a couple years?  Obviously the Coughlin connection is there.  He'd also probably be more than enough QB to manage this offense.  And he does come with actual championship pedigree.

He appears to carry a pretty heft dead cap number, which means it'd have to be really worth it for the Giants to move him before their easy out.  Obviously carries a high cap number as well.  So it'd be a serious outlay of assets to bring a guy like that in.  But would it be a possibility if things go as badly as they appear to be headed for the Giants?

[pwny]

The situation in Minnesota just got a little interesting.

Sam Bradford has “wear and tear” on his knee joint, which could mean arthritis or some sort of degenerative condition. He’s likely out long term, even as a backup for Minnesota. And very well likely may be done as a stop gap answer for a team.

Teddy Bridgewater becomes eligible to come off of PUP next week, and will be meeting with his surgeon on Monday to see if that’s viable. Because Teddy was on PUP for 6 games, his contract tolls and he’s under contract with the Vikings through 2018.

Even if Teddy comes back, unless he unequivocally proves he’s the starter, you have to think they’ll be in the market for another potential starter.

[pwny]

20 hours ago, Tugboat said:

He appears to carry a pretty heft dead cap number, which means it'd have to be really worth it for the Giants to move him before their easy out.  Obviously carries a high cap number as well.  So it'd be a serious outlay of assets to bring a guy like that in.  But would it be a possibility if things go as badly as they appear to be headed for the Giants?

So some interesting stuff about Eli’s contract.

He has a full no trade clause, which means he’s going where he wants to go if he goes.

He has a $5M roster bonus due on the third day of the league year both for the 2018 and 2019 seasons, so the deal would have to be done before the league year started anew. The Giants won’t just eat $5M to eat it. If Eli is to be traded, it’s before that kicks in, as that money can’t be transferred. He also gets a $500k workout bonus thereabouts as well.

Eli’s dead money would be $12.4M, which makes it prohibitive to trade under normal trade behavior. Would probably take a First+ to get the Giants to eat that. Even doing so, Eli’s contract would cost the Jaguars $17M in 2018 ($10.5M base, $5M roster bonus, $500k workout). They could get out from under the deal with nothing lost in 2019, but you probably want more than a year from that type of investment. His 2019 base is $1M higher than 2018, with the rest the same.

Teams can choose to eat dead money in contracts for a player they trade for. The Browns took on the dead money for Brock Osweiler’s contract in exchange for picks from the Texans. If the Jaguars were to choose to do so, they would take on $22.2M in cap for 2018 and $23.2M in 2019 (or $6.2M in dead cap if they cut him before the 3rd day of the 2019 calendar year).

 

All this being a long winded way for me to say I can’t see that happen. They may draft a QB, but they’re not moving Eli until before the 2019 season, that if he is willing to be traded.

[.Buzz]

24 minutes ago, iPwn said:

So some interesting stuff about Eli’s contract.

He has a full no trade clause, which means he’s going where he wants to go if he goes.

He has a $5M roster bonus due on the third day of the league year both for the 2018 and 2019 seasons, so the deal would have to be done before the league year started anew. The Giants won’t just eat $5M to eat it. If Eli is to be traded, it’s before that kicks in, as that money can’t be transferred. He also gets a $500k workout bonus thereabouts as well.

Eli’s dead money would be $12.4M, which makes it prohibitive to trade under normal trade behavior. Would probably take a First+ to get the Giants to eat that. Even doing so, Eli’s contract would cost the Jaguars $17M in 2018 ($10.5M base, $5M roster bonus, $500k workout). They could get out from under the deal with nothing lost in 2019, but you probably want more than a year from that type of investment. His 2019 base is $1M higher than 2018, with the rest the same.

Teams can choose to eat dead money in contracts for a player they trade for. The Browns took on the dead money for Brock Osweiler’s contract in exchange for picks from the Texans. If the Jaguars were to choose to do so, they would take on $22.2M in cap for 2018 and $23.2M in 2019 (or $6.2M in dead cap if they cut him before the 3rd day of the 2019 calendar year).

 

All this being a long winded way for me to say I can’t see that happen. They may draft a QB, but they’re not moving Eli until before the 2019 season, that if he is willing to be traded.

I'm not a huge Eli fan and I do think he's regressing, but I gotta say...put him in here with the running game and defense and this team goes places imo. 

It's unfortunate because it won't happen, but I'd be for it pending on cost. Lot of people have talked about a 3rd rd pick. I'd be down for that.

[LinderFournette]

1 hour ago, .Buzz said:

I'm not a huge Eli fan and I do think he's regressing, but I gotta say...put him in here with the running game and defense and this team goes places imo. 

It's unfortunate because it won't happen, but I'd be for it pending on cost. Lot of people have talked about a 3rd rd pick. I'd be down for that.

Wont likely matter cuz eli wont want to waive his no trade clause to come here

[.Buzz]

Just now, LinderFournette said:

Wont likely matter cuz eli wont want to waive his no trade clause to come here

Why is that? I think the idea of coming to a place with a RB like Fournette and a defense that is playing like a top 5-8 unit would look quite nice for a QB. Plus, he'll have some familiar faces on the staff/organization with TC and co. Much better situation here than what he has to work with in NYG, and if we're the only team calling I'd imagine he'd rather be here than in NYG with now no Beckham or Marshall at WR.

[LinderFournette]

4 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

Why is that? I think the idea of coming to a place with a RB like Fournette and a defense that is playing like a top 5-8 unit would look quite nice for a QB. Plus, he'll have some familiar faces on the staff/organization with TC and co. Much better situation here than what he has to work with in NYG, and if we're the only team calling I'd imagine he'd rather be here than in NYG with now no Beckham or Marshall at WR.

Eli loves ny.  The giants were very reluctant to give him that ntc not to mention how much dead cap they would be hit with. They would be accelerating a 32 million cap hit if they trade him this year.  I dont think they will trade him for a 3rd and eat that cap. They could potentially in the offseason when it drops to 12 million but thats still fairly sizeable chunk of your cap space

[.Buzz]

10 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

Eli loves ny.  The giants were very reluctant to give him that ntc not to mention how much dead cap they would be hit with. They would be accelerating a 32 million cap hit if they trade him this year.  I dont think they will trade him for a 3rd and eat that cap. They could potentially in the offseason when it drops to 12 million but thats still fairly sizeable chunk of your cap space

I wasn't replying to what the Giants would do. You said Eli would never come here and I disagree. Competent QB play would go a long ways success wise for this team and it's pretty obvious to just about everyone.

[pwny]

Eli said he would rather skip football and go to law school than play for the Chargers. He forced his way onto the Giants. He’s one of three players in NFL history to opt out of playing for the team that drafted him solely because he didn’t want to play for that team.

He very well might have zero interest in playing in Jacksonville to end his career.

[.Buzz]

16 minutes ago, iPwn said:

Eli said he would rather skip football and go to law school than play for the Chargers. He forced his way onto the Giants. He’s one of three players in NFL history to opt out of playing for the team that drafted him solely because he didn’t want to play for that team.

He very well might have zero interest in playing in Jacksonville to end his career.

He may not, who knows.

All I know is the situation is much better here and considering he has 2, maybe 3 years left of competent QB play imo, it wouldn't shock me if he wanted out of an organization that is clearly going no where and onto one that has pieces on it that needs desperate help at QB and can contend for a playoff spot with one.

Either way, I'm not losing much sleep. As I said, I don't think Eli is in a very good spot right now but he wouldn't be asked to carry the team here and could rely heavily on a great defense and solid run game. He is just much better than what we have (which doesn't take much), so of course I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

 

[LinderFournette]

8 hours ago, .Buzz said:

He may not, who knows.

All I know is the situation is much better here and considering he has 2, maybe 3 years left of competent QB play imo, it wouldn't shock me if he wanted out of an organization that is clearly going no where and onto one that has pieces on it that needs desperate help at QB and can contend for a playoff spot with one.

Either way, I'm not losing much sleep. As I said, I don't think Eli is in a very good spot right now but he wouldn't be asked to carry the team here and could rely heavily on a great defense and solid run game. He is just much better than what we have (which doesn't take much), so of course I wouldn't mind seeing it happen.

 

I wouldnt call eli a clear upgrade as you think. Last year 16 ints 7 fumbles for eli while bortles 16 ints 8 fumbles.  Only difference is completion percentage.

[.Buzz]

26 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

I wouldnt call eli a clear upgrade as you think. Last year 16 ints 7 fumbles for eli while bortles 16 ints 8 fumbles.  Only difference is completion percentage.

Eye test, not looking at stats. He wouldn't be asked to do as much here with this rosters setup and can actually hit WRs in stride.

Hes most definitely a clear upgrade.

[LinderFournette]

7 hours ago, .Buzz said:

Eye test, not looking at stats. He wouldn't be asked to do as much here with this rosters setup and can actually hit WRs in stride.

Hes most definitely a clear upgrade.

The odds of the giants trading him and Eli agreeing to the deal is slim and none.  Hes not much better then Blake at this point. Hes a turnover king like bortles. Hes always been among the leaders in turnovers.