Karnage84 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 6 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Guess you can figure it out next yr with lesser talent... It shouldn't be that tough to find a og.. center is tougher why personally I drafted one... Madden...yawn...gelling..yawn.. the only side that needs to worry about gelling is the left.. the rest are expendable and will be at some point soon anyway.. Wagner has another yr like the last hes gone..and should be. Glasgow sure wouldn't call a keeper.. no rg.. so whos gellin... Imo Crosby could and should try og but really not seeing why Wagner couldn't at least get a shot there. Imo we atleast need 2 ol anyway Whatever leads to more wins is a good thing. If Taylor is the guy to do it, so be it. I'm skeptical to think that we will actually get Flowers and expect that we will lose/let go Ansah. I view the pass-rush as a significant hole that needs particular attention. We can both agree that RG needs to be addressed (whether for this year or next) and that an upgrade at OC is likely in store (for this year or next). Replacing Wagner with a rookie in the top 10 is the principal issue for me. There's better players at higher positions of need. However, I don't think Wagner is worth an $11M cap hit so there would have to be some reworking there to justify him staying there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 17 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Whatever leads to more wins is a good thing. If Taylor is the guy to do it, so be it. I'm skeptical to think that we will actually get Flowers and expect that we will lose/let go Ansah. I view the pass-rush as a significant hole that needs particular attention. We can both agree that RG needs to be addressed (whether for this year or next) and that an upgrade at OC is likely in store (for this year or next). Replacing Wagner with a rookie in the top 10 is the principal issue for me. There's better players at higher positions of need. However, I don't think Wagner is worth an $11M cap hit so there would have to be some reworking there to justify him staying there. Trust me I want pr just as much as anyone else but last yr showed also we find ways to get after the qb even w/o our best pr. I think it should actually be more about getting this secondary straight vs pr But you gotta get this ol better and picking this high definitely checkout a premier postion.... dismiss it for wagner.. hold your breath with deck.. And for all you defensive minded it's only one pick...that could Potentially fix two spots and depth at LT.. Crosby imo a great chess piece If you think there are better ways to build this ol I'd like to hear it. You agree at least we shouldn't be paying Wagner that much so what are you doin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 5 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Trust me I want pr just as much as anyone else but last yr showed also we find ways to get after the qb even w/o our best pr. I think it should actually be more about getting this secondary straight vs pr But you gotta get this ol better and picking this high definitely checkout a premier postion.... dismiss it for wagner.. hold your breath with deck.. And for all you defensive minded it's only one pick...that could Potentially fix two spots and depth at LT.. Crosby imo a great chess piece If you think there are better ways to build this ol I'd like to hear it. You agree at least we shouldn't be paying Wagner that much so what are you doin? Lang: He's going to count as $2.66M in dead cap whether he retires or is cut. I think he wants to come back. If we bring him back, restructure his contract to be equal to his dead cap figure. He's a vet guy that does well when healthy. His issue hasn't been about ability but reliability. He's also not the future. If he's back as a stop gap, we can draft a mid-round guy who can fill in if there's an injury or be groomed to take over next year. Opens up $8.8M in cap space Wagner: Restructure his deal to count somewhere between $5M - $6M. If he is a post-June 1 cut, then we're looking at $2.9M in dead cap but opening up about $9M in cap space. This would open up about $5M in cap space. Mike McGlinchey is a very good comparison here. He was taken last year at #9, plays RT and is on a rookie contract. His cap hit is about $4M with a PFF grade of 72 vs Wagner at a 71. I'd take MM 2.0 at a cap hit of $4M vs Wagner at $11M any day of the week. If we can get similar production for a similar cap hit and use that draft capital to address other areas of need, then I think it's worth it to hold put. The principal issue will be whether Wagner is willing to restructure his deal or not. Glasgow: Trade down and grab a guy in rounds 3-5 who can compete or potentially take over that spot. If you wanted to go the FA route, Matt Paradis is an instant upgrade. He's also much older and is going to be costly. He's probably going to fetch $6M/year at age 28 vs Glasgow at $2M at age 26. The next guy is Mitch Morse and he's in the same ballpark as Glasgow but likely to cost $4M. According to PFF's top 10 FA Interior Linemen, 3 x 2nd round, 2x 3rd round, 1x4th round, 1 x 6th round, 3 x UDFA. I'm not going to bank on getting a UDFA guy to step in to be a starter for me but this tells me that we can find some of these guys in the middle rounds. I'm not looking to toss these guys out and replace with just anyone. I'm looking to bring guys in to compete for those spots with an eye towards finding a successor, especially for Lang. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 34 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: Lang: He's going to count as $2.66M in dead cap whether he retires or is cut. I think he wants to come back. If we bring him back, restructure his contract to be equal to his dead cap figure. He's a vet guy that does well when healthy. His issue hasn't been about ability but reliability. He's also not the future. If he's back as a stop gap, we can draft a mid-round guy who can fill in if there's an injury or be groomed to take over next year. Opens up $8.8M in cap space Wagner: Restructure his deal to count somewhere between $5M - $6M. If he is a post-June 1 cut, then we're looking at $2.9M in dead cap but opening up about $9M in cap space. This would open up about $5M in cap space. Mike McGlinchey is a very good comparison here. He was taken last year at #9, plays RT and is on a rookie contract. His cap hit is about $4M with a PFF grade of 72 vs Wagner at a 71. I'd take MM 2.0 at a cap hit of $4M vs Wagner at $11M any day of the week. If we can get similar production for a similar cap hit and use that draft capital to address other areas of need, then I think it's worth it to hold put. The principal issue will be whether Wagner is willing to restructure his deal or not. Glasgow: Trade down and grab a guy in rounds 3-5 who can compete or potentially take over that spot. If you wanted to go the FA route, Matt Paradis is an instant upgrade. He's also much older and is going to be costly. He's probably going to fetch $6M/year at age 28 vs Glasgow at $2M at age 26. The next guy is Mitch Morse and he's in the same ballpark as Glasgow but likely to cost $4M. According to PFF's top 10 FA Interior Linemen, 3 x 2nd round, 2x 3rd round, 1x4th round, 1 x 6th round, 3 x UDFA. I'm not going to bank on getting a UDFA guy to step in to be a starter for me but this tells me that we can find some of these guys in the middle rounds. I'm not looking to toss these guys out and replace with just anyone. I'm looking to bring guys in to compete for those spots with an eye towards finding a successor, especially for Lang. Idk why Wagner would restructure what's the percentage on that? The other factor you didn't talk about is Decker and how your way more than likely overpays him. Is he worth top tackle money for you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Idk why Wagner would restructure what's the percentage on that? The other factor you didn't talk about is Decker and how your way more than likely overpays him. Is he worth top tackle money for you? If that was me, I'd rather get paid $6M and keep my family in a stable situation as opposed to moving for the second time in 2 years and being paid similar money. Decker: Taylor isn't going to play LT... so even if you draft him you're not replacing a guy like Decker. He's a good but not great tackle. He's signed for another 2 years. No team is ever going to be 100%. Decker isn't a problem, so I'm not going to actively look to get rid of him. I might consider it more seriously in the 2020 draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 7 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: If that was me, I'd rather get paid $6M and keep my family in a stable situation as opposed to moving for the second time in 2 years and being paid similar money. Decker: Taylor isn't going to play LT... so even if you draft him you're not replacing a guy like Decker. He's a good but not great tackle. He's signed for another 2 years. No team is ever going to be 100%. Decker isn't a problem, so I'm not going to actively look to get rid of him. I might consider it more seriously in the 2020 draft. Also factoring where we will be picking this yr. Say top tackle vs say 4th best pr. Future outlook of the ol. I'm not trying to push Decker or Wagner out... And if Wagner wants to take a paycut even better. Idc if Taylor stays at rt.. they face some serious pr in the division alone Wagner could flat out not handle it your ready to try again? K Maybe you can better the D and he can produce more sacks allowed... Seriously though hope they don't rule this out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 2 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Also factoring where we will be picking this yr. Say top tackle vs say 4th best pr. Future outlook of the ol. I'm not trying to push Decker or Wagner out... And if Wagner wants to take a paycut even better. Idc if Taylor stays at rt.. they face some serious pr in the division alone Wagner could flat out not handle it your ready to try again? K Maybe you can better the D and he can produce more sacks allowed... Seriously though hope they don't rule this out It's a new scheme and the offense struggled as a whole. We're not going to replace the entire OL minus Ragnow in one swoop. If the season goes the way you're expecting if we don't make the pick, we're probably going to be in line for another top OT next year. With a QB heavy draft next year, there's going to be a bunch of very good players pushed down. It's possible that the Lions move on from Stafford and take another QBOTF (maybe another Georgia guy in Fromm) but we'll leave that for another thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimbaWho Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 Wouldn't surprise me or make me mad either. A lot of things can be covered up with a good Oline. A whole lot. Whoever they take though the guy will have to be a bonified starter day 1 or people, (including me), will look at the players drafted behind him making an impact and point it out as a failure to allocate resources properly. Hell, the only position I'll just throw my hands up and quit is if they draft a TE at 8! Even then... If somehow the guy selected has a hall-of-fame career, those Lions will prolly pull me back in cause that's about what it'll take for a TE to be worth it at 8, imo. I mean seriously, if they pick a guy and he's Gronk or Graham in his prime 2.0 then... you know ok, ok.. Not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 20, 2019 Share Posted February 20, 2019 36 minutes ago, SimbaWho said: Wouldn't surprise me or make me mad either. A lot of things can be covered up with a good Oline. A whole lot. Whoever they take though the guy will have to be a bonified starter day 1 or people, (including me), will look at the players drafted behind him making an impact and point it out as a failure to allocate resources properly. Hell, the only position I'll just throw my hands up and quit is if they draft a TE at 8! Even then... If somehow the guy selected has a hall-of-fame career, those Lions will prolly pull me back in cause that's about what it'll take for a TE to be worth it at 8, imo. I mean seriously, if they pick a guy and he's Gronk or Graham in his prime 2.0 then... you know ok, ok.. Not bad. With such a rich class whoever they pick isn't gonna live up to the pick imo But you draft a young te at pick 8 this fan base alone will probably kill him..if Stafford don't first Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 17 hours ago, Rockcity2 said: With such a rich class whoever they pick isn't gonna live up to the pick imo But you draft a young te at pick 8 this fan base alone will probably kill him..if Stafford don't first Even if Hockenson is a better prospect than Ebron, I still just don't see the value in drafting a TE in the 1st round let alone in the top 10. If you look at the top 10 guys for the last several years, there's only a few that are first round guys. Ebron is the highest drafted TE in that top 10 by a long shot. Most of the other first round guys were drafted in the 20's and 30's. There is no way that happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Want A Title Posted February 21, 2019 Author Share Posted February 21, 2019 One TE I like that will be available on Day 2 is Kaden Smith. He is relatively young but is already 6'5 and 250lbs. He had 47 receptions in Stanford's pro-style offense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 21, 2019 Share Posted February 21, 2019 14 minutes ago, Just Want A Title said: One TE I like that will be available on Day 2 is Kaden Smith. He is relatively young but is already 6'5 and 250lbs. He had 47 receptions in Stanford's pro-style offense. There's a few guys that should be impact players in 2-3 years. I'd like to get a guy like Irv Smith with our 2nd round pick and then another guy like Dawson Knox or Kahale Warring in later rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted February 23, 2019 Share Posted February 23, 2019 On 2/19/2019 at 1:23 PM, Karnage84 said: The principal issue is - what do you do with Wagner? Cut the dead weight. Someone playing at Wagner's level isn't a reason not to draft a position. Wagner was a huge liability this year, if we can upgrade RT and cut him loose I'm 100% for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 On 2/22/2019 at 8:30 PM, Nnivolcm said: Cut the dead weight. Someone playing at Wagner's level isn't a reason not to draft a position. Wagner was a huge liability this year, if we can upgrade RT and cut him loose I'm 100% for it. That's assuming that we can find someone to replace him that will play at the same or better. That's also assuming we can address the other plethora of holes in FA or other draft positions. I'm fine to upgrade any player at any position but this is all a balancing act. What other position are we compromising on in order to do that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 1 hour ago, Karnage84 said: That's assuming that we can find someone to replace him that will play at the same or better. That's also assuming we can address the other plethora of holes in FA or other draft positions. I'm fine to upgrade any player at any position but this is all a balancing act. What other position are we compromising on in order to do that? Shouldn't be hard to find a upgrade man Balancing act? Your way to worried about position drafting (need drafting) the balancing for act for you is make sure they draft for need instead of bpa.. One pick of ol you think it's being blown up.. you keep trying to fix all these team needs in one os.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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