diehardlionfan Posted February 24, 2019 Share Posted February 24, 2019 Balance = 8-8 Perfection in anything will never be achieved however excellence on one side of the ball and competence on the other seems to be what brings success. It’s about creating mismatches and forcing opponents to game plan, reacting to the Lions,not the opposite, which we’ve all seen. As for mocks and drafts we really need to see what the Lions do in free agency and what needs, if any, are filled with a quality player. If they sign Flowers and could somehow get Ansah on a cost effective deal that would really change the draft outlook. Depending how the draft falls it might make sense to draft a TE or OT. I would cringe if it were a TE but I could understand. As others have pointed out Wagner didn’t play to his contract so if they feel a Rookie could replace him, that would also make sense. With all the changes the team went through last season it’s hard for me to gauge upside versus lack of talent. Who will improve with a season learning the scheme and the off season to heal and then training camp to put into practice everything they learned last season. Or, who struggled from not understanding what to do, and who simply couldn’t do it. I have some grave concerns about the offence but the draft and free agency aren’t likely to address those concerns. It’s more scheme related and Stanford’s ability to excel in the scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 15 hours ago, diehardlionfan said: Balance = 8-8 Perfection in anything will never be achieved however excellence on one side of the ball and competence on the other seems to be what brings success. It’s about creating mismatches and forcing opponents to game plan, reacting to the Lions,not the opposite, which we’ve all seen. As for mocks and drafts we really need to see what the Lions do in free agency and what needs, if any, are filled with a quality player. If they sign Flowers and could somehow get Ansah on a cost effective deal that would really change the draft outlook. Depending how the draft falls it might make sense to draft a TE or OT. I would cringe if it were a TE but I could understand. As others have pointed out Wagner didn’t play to his contract so if they feel a Rookie could replace him, that would also make sense. With all the changes the team went through last season it’s hard for me to gauge upside versus lack of talent. Who will improve with a season learning the scheme and the off season to heal and then training camp to put into practice everything they learned last season. Or, who struggled from not understanding what to do, and who simply couldn’t do it. I have some grave concerns about the offence but the draft and free agency aren’t likely to address those concerns. It’s more scheme related and Stanford’s ability to excel in the scheme. Trying to play it safe does bring us to 8-8 at best. I don't think if the Lions aggressively pursue a guy like Flowers (assuming he even hits the market) is playing it safe or balance. Every team is going to try to plug their most important holes with the bulk of their capital and then try to be "tactful" in addressing the others. Sometimes they get lucky and that FA vastly outplays his contractor or the mid-round rookie steps up as a starter. The Colts and the Jets are just two of the teams with a stupid amount of cap space. They can afford to drop $12M on a guy like Ansah and bank on his upside when he's healthy. I'd be shocked if he's back with us next season. Wagner is a bit pricy but he only allowed 5.5 sacks (as opposed to Deckers 7.5) and had a PFF rating of 71.6 vs Decker's 70.4. If we trade down and a guy like Taylor is there as the BPA, then maybe you do look to plug one of those guys in at RG (assuming Lang doesn't come back or isn't healthy). Wagner was our 2nd highest rated OLinemen (Lang was first at 72.0). Unless we're looking at 2019 as another step in a rebuild with an eye on 2020, then I don't think it makes a lot of sense to open up extra holes when we have so many others right now. One of my bigger concerns is actually FS. Quin had deteriorated and yet played a significant role last year. I'm hopeful that Walker can slide in and replace him in an expanded role. That's also not a given. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 On 20/02/2019 at 3:31 PM, Rockcity2 said: Also factoring where we will be picking this yr. Say top tackle vs say 4th best pr. Future outlook of the ol. I'm not trying to push Decker or Wagner out... And if Wagner wants to take a paycut even better. Idc if Taylor stays at rt.. they face some serious pr in the division alone Wagner could flat out not handle it your ready to try again? K Maybe you can better the D and he can produce more sacks allowed... Seriously though hope they don't rule this out Your boy pulled his hammy and won't be participating at the combine. Will be interesting to see how this will impact his draft stock, if it does at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Karnage84 said: Trying to play it safe does bring us to 8-8 at best. I don't think if the Lions aggressively pursue a guy like Flowers (assuming he even hits the market) is playing it safe or balance. Every team is going to try to plug their most important holes with the bulk of their capital and then try to be "tactful" in addressing the others. Sometimes they get lucky and that FA vastly outplays his contractor or the mid-round rookie steps up as a starter. The Colts and the Jets are just two of the teams with a stupid amount of cap space. They can afford to drop $12M on a guy like Ansah and bank on his upside when he's healthy. I'd be shocked if he's back with us next season. Wagner is a bit pricy but he only allowed 5.5 sacks (as opposed to Deckers 7.5) and had a PFF rating of 71.6 vs Decker's 70.4. If we trade down and a guy like Taylor is there as the BPA, then maybe you do look to plug one of those guys in at RG (assuming Lang doesn't come back or isn't healthy). Wagner was our 2nd highest rated OLinemen (Lang was first at 72.0). Unless we're looking at 2019 as another step in a rebuild with an eye on 2020, then I don't think it makes a lot of sense to open up extra holes when we have so many others right now. One of my bigger concerns is actually FS. Quin had deteriorated and yet played a significant role last year. I'm hopeful that Walker can slide in and replace him in an expanded role. That's also not a given. Do you hear what your saying...the ol wasn't good yet it's not a hole? How long do you wait.. a crippled up Lang is our best ol player but nah we need no help..they have holes everywhere...not seeing how your perceived holes are any more important... didn't walker have a good pff rating too... so with your logic we shouldn't need a fs so why you worried... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Karnage84 said: Your boy pulled his hammy and won't be participating at the combine. Will be interesting to see how this will impact his draft stock, if it does at all. Ya that sucks He's not my one and only tho.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Do you hear what your saying...the ol wasn't good yet it's not a hole? How long do you wait.. a crippled up Lang is our best ol player but nah we need no help..they have holes everywhere...not seeing how your perceived holes are any more important... didn't walker have a good pff rating too... so with your logic we shouldn't need a fs so why you worried... Lang has performed well but is also towards the end of his career - which is why we should draft someone to be his replacement. It just doesn't have to be in the 1st. There will be some solid guards in the 3rd or 4th that should be able to step in if they have to. Otherwise they'll be ready to take over when he retires next year. The PFF scores are just one piece. Walker played well but the sample size was small. So I'm optimistic but I also wouldn't bank on it. I would rather bring in some insurance in case he struggles adjusting for an increased workload. There are a lot of holes on the roster. I'd rather try to fill the ones that don't already have an average starter penciled in unless they're BPA by a wide margin. If the next Joe Thomas is sitting there at 8 then it would make sense to draft him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, Rockcity2 said: Ya that sucks He's not my one and only tho.. What is your take on Devin White? I watch highlights and I'm a fan. I just watched the cut up of LSU vs Georgia and he was constantly being swallowed by blockers. If you look at the stat sheet, he had 13 tackles (1 solo, 12 assisted) and TFL and a fumble recovery. I wasn't counting things but I wasn't seeing a player that was getting to the ball and making a play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rockcity2 Posted February 25, 2019 Share Posted February 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Karnage84 said: What is your take on Devin White? I watch highlights and I'm a fan. I just watched the cut up of LSU vs Georgia and he was constantly being swallowed by blockers. If you look at the stat sheet, he had 13 tackles (1 solo, 12 assisted) and TFL and a fumble recovery. I wasn't counting things but I wasn't seeing a player that was getting to the ball and making a play. I like him. Do I think he would be some type of game changer on this team I have doubts. Plus I really don't like drafting rbs or lbs in the first rd...with 3/4 it's abit different .drafting this high personally I couldn't do it.. Plus when you think about the division is there really a running game your worried about? It's secondary ol or dl/pr for me dont think thats gonna change for me picking this high. So probably not the right guy to ask... And like your argument where do you put davis... you gonna blow up the whole lb core...but apparently some are liking the idea If you move Davis to olb which I've been wanting.. you might have something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nnivolcm Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 2/24/2019 at 11:28 AM, Karnage84 said: That's assuming that we can find someone to replace him that will play at the same or better. That's also assuming we can address the other plethora of holes in FA or other draft positions. I'm fine to upgrade any player at any position but this is all a balancing act. What other position are we compromising on in order to do that? I'm not sure Crosby wouldn't be an upgrade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
diehardlionfan Posted March 2, 2019 Share Posted March 2, 2019 On 2019-02-25 at 9:28 AM, Karnage84 said: Trying to play it safe does bring us to 8-8 at best. I don't think if the Lions aggressively pursue a guy like Flowers (assuming he even hits the market) is playing it safe or balance. Every team is going to try to plug their most important holes with the bulk of their capital and then try to be "tactful" in addressing the others. Sometimes they get lucky and that FA vastly outplays his contractor or the mid-round rookie steps up as a starter. The Colts and the Jets are just two of the teams with a stupid amount of cap space. They can afford to drop $12M on a guy like Ansah and bank on his upside when he's healthy. I'd be shocked if he's back with us next season. Wagner is a bit pricy but he only allowed 5.5 sacks (as opposed to Deckers 7.5) and had a PFF rating of 71.6 vs Decker's 70.4. If we trade down and a guy like Taylor is there as the BPA, then maybe you do look to plug one of those guys in at RG (assuming Lang doesn't come back or isn't healthy). Wagner was our 2nd highest rated OLinemen (Lang was first at 72.0). Unless we're looking at 2019 as another step in a rebuild with an eye on 2020, then I don't think it makes a lot of sense to open up extra holes when we have so many others right now. One of my bigger concerns is actually FS. Quin had deteriorated and yet played a significant role last year. I'm hopeful that Walker can slide in and replace him in an expanded role. That's also not a given. I think you missed my point. I believe the Lions need to get dominant on one side of the ball. It doesn’t matter which side but they need to have more success dictating play and that doesn’t happen with a team that’s simply balanced. I’m not much for ratings. To me it’s a number. I'm more into gauging a linemans performance with my eyes and how they perform in certain situations as opposed to overall. Lang may or may not be back, Wagner can be upgraded. There’s plenty of room for improvement both in performance and cost. There really isn’t a position on the team that I believe the Lions are set. It wouldn’t surprise me to see them take OL or TE just based on team performance, stated goals, and looking at coaching hires. Its not what I would do but nothing the Lions do surprises me anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitlions72003 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 If they take an OT with the defensive talent available I would be shocked. Id be more shocked with them taking an OT than a TE and that's just sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 1 hour ago, detroitlions72003 said: If they take an OT with the defensive talent available I would be shocked. Id be more shocked with them taking an OT than a TE and that's just sad. The ONLY way that I would be able to support that is if they believe the top level OT player is on par with the BPA Defensive player in that position AND that the depth means a near equivalent player would be available to us in the 2nd round on the defensive side. It's clearly a very, very deep class so it's possible that this could be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detroitlions72003 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 29 minutes ago, Karnage84 said: The ONLY way that I would be able to support that is if they believe the top level OT player is on par with the BPA Defensive player in that position AND that the depth means a near equivalent player would be available to us in the 2nd round on the defensive side. It's clearly a very, very deep class so it's possible that this could be the case. The amount of resources they have put into the Oline already is insane. First rounder Ragnow and Decker, 3rd rounder Glasgow, and huge contracts for Lang and Wagner. The fact they didn't want to pay a much younger Reiff and/or Warford is coming back to bite them. They need a dominant defender on the defensive side if all goes well this may be their last top 10 pick for awhile. Or so we hope Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karnage84 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 19 minutes ago, detroitlions72003 said: The amount of resources they have put into the Oline already is insane. First rounder Ragnow and Decker, 3rd rounder Glasgow, and huge contracts for Lang and Wagner. The fact they didn't want to pay a much younger Reiff and/or Warford is coming back to bite them. They need a dominant defender on the defensive side if all goes well this may be their last top 10 pick for awhile. Or so we hope I agree with you on the Warford contract. Reiff is a different story. They obviously decided he wasn't the guy at LT and I'm not positive he would've been cool being switched to RT. I don't believe he's done much better in Minnesota than Wagner has here (PFF score for Reiff is 73.6 vs Wagner at 71.6). It was pretty much a lateral move. Whether it's Stafford or another guy under centre, we need to find ways to protect him. If we don't, then the offense is going nowhere. I'm not opposed to spending the resources on the position, it just has to work. Lang has struggled with injuries which hasn't helped us at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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