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Free agency plus draft thoughts

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Posted (edited)
18 hours ago, DaBoys said:
18 hours ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Cowboys plan on giving Zeke TGurley money. No links on phone but it’s on bleacherreport 

That's the floor I heard. Gurley's cap hits are very manageable imo. For what we get out of Zeke.

14M per 

There is no part of me willing to give Zeke $14-15m/yr. Not when I can easily envision rookies like Sony Michel, Nick Chubb, Philip Lindsay and James Conner coming in and putting up 1300-1400 yds.  Outside of Conner I believe the others were part timers and all came close or eclipsed the 1000 yd mark. Give them the touches Zeke got and their numbers are in his ballpark.

Maybe I'm under-valuing Zeke too much and/or too confident in Dallas OL, but I simply can't get on board with that kind of money for a RB. 

Edited by WizardHawk

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4 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

There is no part of me willing to give Zeke $14-15m/yr. Not when I can easily envision rookies like Sony Michel, Nick Chubb, Philip Lindsay and James Conner coming in and putting up 1300-1400 yds.  Outside of Conner I believe the others were part timers and all came close or eclipsed the 1000 yd mark. Give them the touches Zeke got and their numbers are in his ballpark.

Maybe I'm under-valuing Zeke too much and/or too confident in Dallas OL, but I simply can't get on board with that kind of money for a RB. 

Zeke is worth it. But not if they run him into the ground like their doing.

They need a good one two punch to take some of the pressure off. Zeke is not the type of guy that has to have 30-40 touches a game to be successful.

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Posted (edited)
45 minutes ago, WizardHawk said:

There is no part of me willing to give Zeke $14-15m/yr. Not when I can easily envision rookies like Sony Michel, Nick Chubb, Philip Lindsay and James Conner coming in and putting up 1300-1400 yds.  Outside of Conner I believe the others were part timers and all came close or eclipsed the 1000 yd mark. Give them the touches Zeke got and their numbers are in his ballpark.

Maybe I'm under-valuing Zeke too much and/or too confident in Dallas OL, but I simply can't get on board with that kind of money for a RB. 

Also maybe overestimating other RBs ability to handle Zekes touches?

Did Philip Lindsay not have a season ending injury to his wrist? I thought Connor missed time down the stretch with an ankle? Chubb was a late 2nd round guy, and If you don't like paying RBs you probably don't like drafting them early on. Sony was a first round pick.

Idk, man. The offensive strategy of paying Dak "whatever it takes," and replacing one of our only real threats with a late round rookie or UDFA hoping he can handle 400 touches sounds like a great design for a bottom 5 offense. 

 

I don't like paying a RB that much either, but we have been really leaning on Zeke. It would be unfair to expect that from a rookie.

Edited by DaBoys

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39 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Also maybe overestimating other RBs ability to handle Zekes touches?

Did Philip Lindsay not have a season ending injury to his wrist? I thought Connor missed time down the stretch with an ankle? Chubb was a late 2nd round guy, and If you don't like paying RBs you probably don't like drafting them early on. Sony was a first round pick.

Idk, man. The offensive strategy of paying Dak "whatever it takes," and replacing one of our only real threats with a rookie hoping he can handle 400 touches sounds like a great design for a bottom 5 offense. 

 

I don't like paying a RB that much either, but we have been really leaning on Zeke. It would be unfair to expect that from a rookie.

Let's not forget. We threw away a season thinking Darren McFadden could do what D.Murray & Zeke can do.

There is a reason we got Zeke. We were that terrible without him.

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Let's not forget. We threw away a season thinking Darren McFadden could do what D.Murray & Zeke can do.

There is a reason we got Zeke. We were that terrible without him.

Both sides of the argument were proven right here. On one hand McFadden proved that anyone really can get 1000 behind that OL. Yet there was a noticeable difference in our dominance on the ground without Murray. And without a passing game, it wasn't enough to carry the team. Maybe Murray could have.

We still don't have a great passing game. It's better, but we are 23rd in passing yards and 22nd in TDs. We aren't back to 2010-2014, just because we aren't 2015 status anymore(27th yards and 29th TDs).

 

In a perfect world, we would keep Zeke 5 years total and let him walk. Then get another Zeke like talent in the 4th -7th rounds... but it's not likely. 

 

The Stealers missed the playoffs for the first time in how many years? Conner was good but wasn't enough. Maybe Bell would have been. Who knows? Only a handful of RBs could handle Zekes load and still be productive. Even Zeke was limping around in the end. 

And until we get a real passing game, we need Zeke. 

 

Edited by DaBoys

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

Both sides of the argument were proven right here. On one hand McFadden proved that anyone really can get 1000 behind that OL. Yet there was a noticeable difference in our dominance on the ground without Murrray. And without a passing game, it wasn't enough to carry the team. Maybe Murray could have.

We still don't have a great passing game. It's better, but we are 23rd in passing yards and 22nd in TDs. We aren't back to 2010-2014, just because we aren't 2015 status anymore(27th yards and 29th TDs).

 

In a perfect world, we would keep Zeke 5 years total and let him walk. Then get another Zeke like talent in the 4th -7th rounds... but it's not likely. 

 

The Stealers missed the playoffs for the first time in how many years? Conner was good but wasn't enough. Maybe Bell would have been. Who knows? Only a handful of RBs could handle Zekes load and still be productive. Even Zeke was limping around in the end. 

And until we get a real passing game, we need Zeke. 

 

Zeke is an elite RB in the NFL. Elite players do one thing that the average player doesnt. They produce when it counts aka Crunchtime. Yeah D.Mac got 1k but like it was meaningless because his running style didn't set the tone & much of it was garbage yards.

I remember thinking this & fearing going into that season with DMac and it's exactly what happened. We are a run-first team, Zeke is the face our franchise. 

Don't you forget if it wasn't for last year suspension, he would've been the leagues leading rusher 3 years in a row. You don't let a RB who could've led the league 3 years in a row for rushing just WALK in FA.

And exactly, the mistake the Steelers made was them not being able to identity the caliber of talent they had at RB with Bell. 

Problems arise when we start getting too cute with simple situations like the Steelers.

Edited by canadaluvsdallas

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1 hour ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Let's not forget. We threw away a season thinking Darren McFadden could do what D.Murray & Zeke can do.

There is a reason we got Zeke. We were that terrible without him.

Lets also not forget that Matt Cassel and Brandon Weeden played the majority of the season and Dez Bryant missed or played injured all season. So to put that kind of label on DMC is misguided. 

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14 hours ago, WizardHawk said:

Lets also not forget that Matt Cassel and Brandon Weeden played the majority of the season and Dez Bryant missed or played injured all season. So to put that kind of label on DMC is misguided. 

Granted Romo was one hit away from the IR every time at this point but Dmac wasn’t a threat at all. No one clued into our running game even when Romo played , which lead to everyone crowding the line of scrimmage and I honestly think we got blitzed like every play with teams knowing well that if they took Romo out we’d be without a playmaker that can make plays when it counts.

That whole season was a disaster because we forgot who we were. Our offense didn’t even run through Romo at that point , it depended on a RB that can make crunch time plays and keep defenders honest. 

We got too cute and threw away the season. I think the FO realized this as well and don’t wish to go back. 

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31 minutes ago, canadaluvsdallas said:

Granted Romo was one hit away from the IR every time at this point but Dmac wasn’t a threat at all. No one clued into our running game even when Romo played , which lead to everyone crowding the line of scrimmage and I honestly think we got blitzed like every play with teams knowing well that if they took Romo out we’d be without a playmaker that can make plays when it counts.

That whole season was a disaster because we forgot who we were. Our offense didn’t even run through Romo at that point , it depended on a RB that can make crunch time plays and keep defenders honest. 

We got too cute and threw away the season. I think the FO realized this as well and don’t wish to go back. 

Dallas was never going to succeed with Cassel/Weeden at QB regardless the team's identity and regardless whether it was Zeke in the backfield or any other RB.

And, DMC for being no threat, put up nearly a 1k in 11 games (after the failed Randle Joseph exp)...not to mention another 40/328 receiving. He wasn't the problem at all. 

We'll simply agree to disagree on this. Not delving into another RB debate. Will say Zeke needs a competent backup. Don't see how anyone could debate that. 

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The problem with this team is that *they also* concluded that a team that lost its All-Pro QB and WR in the first two weeks and had a litany of suspensions and injuries to what was mostly a very strong defense lost 12 games because of its running backs.

That year was such a waste. I don’t care how many yards Zeke rushes for, we’re never gonna have as much talent at the LOS as that team did, and Dak and Amari are never gonna average 12 TD hookups annually for a 3+ year stretch.

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3 hours ago, matt79511 said:

The problem with this team is that *they also* concluded that a team that lost its All-Pro QB and WR in the first two weeks and had a litany of suspensions and injuries to what was mostly a very strong defense lost 12 games because of its running backs.

I'm sure the team recognized they had problems at QB in 2015. They didn't only blame the RBs. They just figured you know, Romo and Dez were coming back. So they took the best player in the draft. Jalen Ramsey is proving to be a tool bag and locker room drama queen, and the other guy they were considering was Leonard Floyd. They made the right choice, and I highly doubt it had anything to with them blaming DMC for 2015.

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5 minutes ago, DaBoys said:

I'm sure the team recognized they had problems at QB in 2015. They didn't only blame the RBs. They just figured you know, Romo and Dez were coming back. So they took the best player in the draft. Jalen Ramsey is proving to be a tool bag and locker room drama queen, and the other guy they were considering was Leonard Floyd. They made the right choice, and I highly doubt it had anything to with them blaming DMC for 2015.

Fair enough. I just wonder if our team (and fanbase) didn’t take the right lessons from 2015. We’re much more risk averse now in terms of player acquisitions, basically allergic to free agency, and our fixation on running game/TOP/limit possessions and turnovers at all costs has kind of made us inflexible in terms of paths to victory.

That 2015 team, had things hit right and we were firing on all cylinders, could actually beat teams in many different ways. Despite failing in the most spectacular way possible, they had as much of a chance to make a run as any we’ve had since, or better, IMO. Romo has said as much. I don’t see how we can ever assimilate that much pass rushing talent again after paying Dak, Zeke, and Amari

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I think we need to see the post SL offense before anyone gets a contract, except maybe Amari because we have already made our bed there. If things go south this year the new coaching staff may not want Dak. I'm sure the league is just as split on him as the fans. They may not want Zeke. I'm sure the league is just as split on whether to pay RBs or not.

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49 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

 

Whelp they gambled and lost. 

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