Shockwave Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I think we can all accept OBJ is going to go on to have an excellent career. But what matters most is winning games. And an elite WR just simply does not translate to winning games. What does is great QB play, O and D lines, and pass rushing. I'm still skeptical of DG's plan but...if he pulls it off and restores us to winning ways in 2-3 seasons, then I'll take that over having an elite WR on a consistent 5-10 team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGiantsman10 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Shockey1979 said: I think we can all accept OBJ is going to go on to have an excellent career. But what matters most is winning games. And an elite WR just simply does not translate to winning games. What does is great QB play, O and D lines, and pass rushing. I'm still skeptical of DG's plan but...if he pulls it off and restores us to winning ways in 2-3 seasons, then I'll take that over having an elite WR on a consistent 5-10 team. You have a point Shock. For all of DG’s faults (and he has many) he had a good draft last year. If he can find more versions of Will Hernandez and BJ Hill in the next 2-3 years, the team will be in much better shape. He’s just putting an awful lot of eggs in the draft basket. His idea for a rebuild isn’t impossible; now we have more than ever riding on these draft picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodaraw Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 hours ago, Shockey1979 said: I think we can all accept OBJ is going to go on to have an excellent career. But what matters most is winning games. And an elite WR just simply does not translate to winning games. What does is great QB play, O and D lines, and pass rushing. I'm still skeptical of DG's plan but...if he pulls it off and restores us to winning ways in 2-3 seasons, then I'll take that over having an elite WR on a consistent 5-10 team. If it’s going to take 2-3 seasons, is the extra 1 and 3 and a box safety worth more than a WR that can help out a young QB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 24 minutes ago, Kodaraw said: If it’s going to take 2-3 seasons, is the extra 1 and 3 and a box safety worth more than a WR that can help out a young QB If that 1 and 3 is what leads to that young QB, and giving him the proper protection. Absolutely worth it. Yes. If a veteran QB with poor protection has an elite WR and RB and struggles, what makes you think a young one would fare better in that scenario? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen19851 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 3 hours ago, Shockey1979 said: I think we can all accept OBJ is going to go on to have an excellent career. But what matters most is winning games. And an elite WR just simply does not translate to winning games. What does is great QB play, O and D lines, and pass rushing. I'm still skeptical of DG's plan but...if he pulls it off and restores us to winning ways in 2-3 seasons, then I'll take that over having an elite WR on a consistent 5-10 team. I'm going to piggy back on this because I feel Shockey and I have seen pretty much eye to eye on this. But in no way are we saying that trading Odell makes us a winning team or that we think he got unbelievable compensation for him. I am still very uncertain when it comes to Gettleman. But I will say this, we won two superbowls because we had elite offensive and defensive lines. And honestly that's the last time we were above average in those categories at the same time. Odell is awesome. Odell can score from anywhere on the field. Odell is a generational talent. All of these things can be true and it could still be the right move to make. Odell is a luxury. A luxury, that in my opinion, right now we couldn't afford. Build up the trenches, get a QB of the future and then look for that x factor that can put you over the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 We won one SB because of our potent d-line. The other one our WRs were as big W factor as anything. So this idea that SBs are one in a certain way is just a myth. There are a number of ways to win a championship. Secondly, the compensation was nowhere near good enough. Y’all make it seem like Odell is stopping us from improving our line and d-line. He wasn’t and that’s the issue. We could keep Odell and build both trenches. And the compensation we got honestly doesn’t align with that goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen19851 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 8 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: We won one SB because of our potent d-line. The other one our WRs were as big W factor as anything. So this idea that SBs are one in a certain way is just a myth. There are a number of ways to win a championship. Secondly, the compensation was nowhere near good enough. Y’all make it seem like Odell is stopping us from improving our line and d-line. He wasn’t and that’s the issue. We could keep Odell and build both trenches. And the compensation we got honestly doesn’t align with that goal. Paying him that much money certainly does Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shockwave Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Sure the WR "corps" was a factor in both SB wins. But guess what..in neither one did we have an elite talent. Plax was maybe arguably top 15, Nicks and Cruz were both good players but never considered elite. Manningham, Steve Smith etc. Nice collection of good reliable players that make up a good deep corps of receiving. That argument just goes to further prove that elite WR's do not win you games. You know what we had in both... great oline play and an intense pass rush... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 2 minutes ago, Gmen19851 said: Paying him that much money certainly does No it doesn’t. A draft exists to acquire cheap talent and fill those holes. And Eli last year would’ve provided us with more than enough space for next years FA. He was not handicapping us and Odells contract isn’t even that big relatively speaking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Nicks was borderline top 5 and had a dominant playoff run. Cruz was elite that year and Manningham was as good a number 3 in the league. We had the best trio of receivers in the league. We didn’t have great oline play in both. Our oline was average in 2011. Our dline was great in both but our WRs were deadly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen19851 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 5 minutes ago, Kip Smithers said: Nicks was borderline top 5 and had a dominant playoff run. Cruz was elite that year and Manningham was as good a number 3 in the league. We had the best trio of receivers in the league. We didn’t have great oline play in both. Our oline was average in 2011. Our dline was great in both but our WRs were deadly. Our online wasn't great in 2011 in the regular season. But we led the playoffs in rushing. Yes, and all 3 of those wide receivers were on rookie contracts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuziam71 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I see everyone giving the giant receivers credit but nothing about Eli being great. Eli has well over 50k yards passing so maybe he deserves alittle more credit. Remember Steve Smith how he had over 100 receptions and the giants let him go. How was he after that. The o-line wasnt the most talented but they got the job done. The pass rush was lethal with that nascar package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kip Smithers Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Gmen19851 said: Our online wasn't great in 2011 in the regular season. But we led the playoffs in rushing. Yes, and all 3 of those wide receivers were on rookie contracts They did play better in post season illl give you that. Yes they were on rookie contracts but we’re not talking about what they earn. We are talking about their impact. EDIT: remember when I said last week that John Middlekauf has spoke to people in front offices around the league and said the Giants had better offers. Well... https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/19/new-york-giants-had-better-offers-for-odell-beckham-than-browns-haul/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kodaraw Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 18 hours ago, Cuziam71 said: Hey kodaraw name a top 5 receiver that won a superbowl. Oh wait Odell is your God. 3 potential starters is better then a talented but selfish star. I can name top 5 QBs that haven’t won a Super Bowl too. And too 5 DL. And top 5 OL. I guess that means we don’t need a generational QB, either. We don’t need any elite talents because they sometime somewhere a top 5 player has never won a super bowl so that must been you don’t need them. Odell isn’t my God, no. But a team that is devoid of talent trading its best player (and best QB, if we’re being honest) for 2 draft picks and a lesser version of the guy we just let walk in FA seems silly to me. Your hatred and disdain for a man you’ve never met won’t allow you to think rationally about the other side of this coin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gmen19851 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 1 hour ago, Kip Smithers said: They did play better in post season illl give you that. Yes they were on rookie contracts but we’re not talking about what they earn. We are talking about their impact. EDIT: remember when I said last week that John Middlekauf has spoke to people in front offices around the league and said the Giants had better offers. Well... https://giantswire.usatoday.com/2019/03/19/new-york-giants-had-better-offers-for-odell-beckham-than-browns-haul/ What are you talking about? I've brought up Beckham's salary numerous times. That's the only reason why I think we should have even traded him. Why would we trade him if he was making 6 million a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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