steelers wont trade AB to pats or afcn

[muncher]

2 hours ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

If you payed attention, I’m on the anti Tomlin side of things...not a fan of all.

However the team has more than enough talent to go out and beat the Pats and before a fumble and stupid Tomlin “gut” feeling calls...beat the Saints.

Theres a grey area in all this you refuse to acknowledge...if you can’t, I guess we’re done.

there is gray area. the one constant in this downward spiral is tomlin tho

[43M]

3 hours ago, AlanFanecaFan said:

If you payed attention, I’m on the anti Tomlin side of things...not a fan of all.

However the team has more than enough talent to go out and beat the Pats and before a fumble and stupid Tomlin “gut” feeling calls...beat the Saints.

Theres a grey area in all this you refuse to acknowledge...if you can’t, I guess we’re done.

He seems to live his life in a grey area.

[Steeler Hitman]

@muncher   You make some very valid points in most of your post, but you seem to enjoy "stirring the pot" so to speak.  That is your prerogative. That stirring gets many ampped up and their juices flowing towards a battle. It generally turns into debate and banter without both sides understanding the other sides point of view. Just my two cents and humble opinion.

Ideally, you would want AB to play for the Tamps Bucs or any other NFC South team that the Steelers wouldn't see for another four years.  But yes, you take the best offer that is given to you regardless of if it is the Ravens, Browns, Bengals or our hated rivals in New England.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens or Pats tried to obtain AB for several reasons including: Adding a top WR for Brady or Lamar, rubbing it in the collective face of the Steelers team, feeling as if they are weakening our team and strengthened theirs, more insight  into our offensive play-book for a defensive minded coaches, etc.  That is what you try to do with your rivals.  You ideally don't want to play into their hands, but if it is the best that you can get, you take it. If you can, you take the picks and try to get defensive player or two to counter it.

It is also a fact that you would be hard pressed to find a team with as much offensive talent on the OL, having a big three like Ben, AB, and Bell, and could light it up when clicking as well as they could. Unfortunately, but truthfully, they have under-achieved. There are plenty of slices of the blame pie to pass out.  Some deserve bigger slices of the pie than others, but they will still eat all of that pie without leaving a crumb. 

When you have locker room issues, players who question the effort given of others, finger pointing, diva behavior, players skipping practice and walk-throughs and all of the other dysfunction it is on the HC.  Winning hides a lot of stuff.  Jimmy Johnson had some of the same big egos in the 90's with Emmitt, Irvin and Troy. There was no social media like now, but they had their share of issues, but they won three SB's. 

I don't think anyone, even the most die-hard of Coach Tomlin supporters think that he is without blame or a lions share of it.  I also don't like or agree with Mr. Rooney's assertion that this team is not or has become a bit of a circus, laughing stock, or embarrassment (insert whatever cliche' he used).  This team has become an embarrassment with the negative press and drama over the past couple years and combine that with a one and done in the play-offs after a 13-3 record and failing to reach the play-offs in 2018 including losing three or four games that they should have won convincingly (Broncos, Chargers, Raiders, and Saints). Yes the Saints got some help on two or three horrible calls or that game was put away by early in the fourth quarter.  Again the turnovers, poor challenge (failure to challenge Thomas' fumble), and inconsistent PI calls hurt the team.  To your point woulda, coulda, shoulda, but didn't! Great teams do! The Steelers have trended down and not up as a result. The Steelers are not a great team based on their performance, but it doesn't mean that they don't have great talent in this organization.  That includes the owner, GM,  and Coach T. 

I want this negative press and drama gone.  One thing that I am encouraged by is that we have not heard much if anything from Coach T since his season ending press conference. I think Coach T has a lot of pride, is disappointed in the results, is embarrassed and very pissed off.  Good!  Hopefully, that translates into positive changes going forward. The culture on the team is poor from a perception standpoint.  You don't have to be Coach Bill B, T. Coghlin or other staunch disciplinarian type coach, but you have to have more accountability in this social media age.

To me this team has lacked the type of locker room leadership that was prevalent in the 70's with Lambert, Green, Russell, Bradshaw and Webster.  No way this type of thing happens with Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green on the team.  The players share in the failings as well both on the field and in the locker room.  Chuck Noll was a disciplinarian, but Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin are called "players coaches."  All had their successes and struggles at times. Noll dealt with Bradshaw and Green wanting to be traded, the defense fussing at the offense for under-performing, and HOF players wanting to get paid $$$.  Coach Cowher was called stubborn.  Many said he was too much like his mentor HC Marty Schottenheimer (can't win the big game), too defensive and conservative minded, and too pig headed to change. All three of these coaches have SB rings that have eluded many other great football minds, leaders and inspiring coaches.  

I think Coach T toughens up on some things that he allowed players to do in the past.  It hasn't worked.  No need to talk about it or proclaim that you will "unleash hell," just do it when needed.

Lastly, AB needs to move on. Lev Bell needs to move on- and Ben needs to handle himself differently with the press.  Divorce is an unfortunate by real part of life.  You want to get the best value as you can for your players, but that cancer that now exist in the locker room must go.  AB's and Bells numbers and success allowed the Steelers to tolerate more, than in hindsight, they should have. Hopefully, lesson learned.

[muncher]

3 hours ago, Steeler Hitman said:

@muncher   You make some very valid points in most of your post, but you seem to enjoy "stirring the pot" so to speak.  That is your prerogative. That stirring gets many ampped up and their juices flowing towards a battle. It generally turns into debate and banter without both sides understanding the other sides point of view. Just my two cents and humble opinion.

Ideally, you would want AB to play for the Tamps Bucs or any other NFC South team that the Steelers wouldn't see for another four years.  But yes, you take the best offer that is given to you regardless of if it is the Ravens, Browns, Bengals or our hated rivals in New England.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Ravens or Pats tried to obtain AB for several reasons including: Adding a top WR for Brady or Lamar, rubbing it in the collective face of the Steelers team, feeling as if they are weakening our team and strengthened theirs, more insight  into our offensive play-book for a defensive minded coaches, etc.  That is what you try to do with your rivals.  You ideally don't want to play into their hands, but if it is the best that you can get, you take it. If you can, you take the picks and try to get defensive player or two to counter it.

It is also a fact that you would be hard pressed to find a team with as much offensive talent on the OL, having a big three like Ben, AB, and Bell, and could light it up when clicking as well as they could. Unfortunately, but truthfully, they have under-achieved. There are plenty of slices of the blame pie to pass out.  Some deserve bigger slices of the pie than others, but they will still eat all of that pie without leaving a crumb. 

When you have locker room issues, players who question the effort given of others, finger pointing, diva behavior, players skipping practice and walk-throughs and all of the other dysfunction it is on the HC.  Winning hides a lot of stuff.  Jimmy Johnson had some of the same big egos in the 90's with Emmitt, Irvin and Troy. There was no social media like now, but they had their share of issues, but they won three SB's. 

I don't think anyone, even the most die-hard of Coach Tomlin supporters think that he is without blame or a lions share of it.  I also don't like or agree with Mr. Rooney's assertion that this team is not or has become a bit of a circus, laughing stock, or embarrassment (insert whatever cliche' he used).  This team has become an embarrassment with the negative press and drama over the past couple years and combine that with a one and done in the play-offs after a 13-3 record and failing to reach the play-offs in 2018 including losing three or four games that they should have won convincingly (Broncos, Chargers, Raiders, and Saints). Yes the Saints got some help on two or three horrible calls or that game was put away by early in the fourth quarter.  Again the turnovers, poor challenge (failure to challenge Thomas' fumble), and inconsistent PI calls hurt the team.  To your point woulda, coulda, shoulda, but didn't! Great teams do! The Steelers have trended down and not up as a result. The Steelers are not a great team based on their performance, but it doesn't mean that they don't have great talent in this organization.  That includes the owner, GM,  and Coach T. 

I want this negative press and drama gone.  One thing that I am encouraged by is that we have not heard much if anything from Coach T since his season ending press conference. I think Coach T has a lot of pride, is disappointed in the results, is embarrassed and very pissed off.  Good!  Hopefully, that translates into positive changes going forward. The culture on the team is poor from a perception standpoint.  You don't have to be Coach Bill B, T. Coghlin or other staunch disciplinarian type coach, but you have to have more accountability in this social media age.

To me this team has lacked the type of locker room leadership that was prevalent in the 70's with Lambert, Green, Russell, Bradshaw and Webster.  No way this type of thing happens with Greg Lloyd and Kevin Green on the team.  The players share in the failings as well both on the field and in the locker room.  Chuck Noll was a disciplinarian, but Bill Cowher and Mike Tomlin are called "players coaches."  All had their successes and struggles at times. Noll dealt with Bradshaw and Green wanting to be traded, the defense fussing at the offense for under-performing, and HOF players wanting to get paid $$$.  Coach Cowher was called stubborn.  Many said he was too much like his mentor HC Marty Schottenheimer (can't win the big game), too defensive and conservative minded, and too pig headed to change. All three of these coaches have SB rings that have eluded many other great football minds, leaders and inspiring coaches.  

I think Coach T toughens up on some things that he allowed players to do in the past.  It hasn't worked.  No need to talk about it or proclaim that you will "unleash hell," just do it when needed.

Lastly, AB needs to move on. Lev Bell needs to move on- and Ben needs to handle himself differently with the press.  Divorce is an unfortunate by real part of life.  You want to get the best value as you can for your players, but that cancer that now exist in the locker room must go.  AB's and Bells numbers and success allowed the Steelers to tolerate more, than in hindsight, they should have. Hopefully, lesson learned.

awesome post., i agree with 90% of it. 

i do however feel tomlin needs to go. way too much talent to have the post season record he has. he  won with cowhers players. whatever his magic was to put those guys over the top isnt working with the guys he drafted and developed. that is obvious.

i want the drama and negative press to continue. i am hoping that someone in the at organization has some pride and feels ashamed, embarrassed etc and wants to turn it around. im afraid tho that there isnt. when you have a owner come out and try to convince me that everything is fine, no drama, no circus, no coaching changes were made and that almost making the playoffs is good enough, leads me to believe that worst times are ahead. can you imagine how comfortable tomlin is after hearing this from the owner?

as fart as i am concerned, this team owes me. i dont need to kiss their arse, they need to kiss mine. am i entitiled?, yep, i am entitled to have my favorite team perform on and off the field up to their potential. if they choose not to do that, i will continue to talk sh!t about them. they need to earn my respect. i am not a 'die hard' fan that feels i need to worship them at all cost. 

i am so embarrassed by this team, i refuse to wear the 25 items of steeler clothing i own. i removed my steeler license plate from my truck

call me old, spoiled, not  a true fan whatever, but this isnt the team i grew up with. the steelers arent the model franchise anymore. who gives a rats arse if they had only 3 coaches in 50 years,? the steelers are just 1 of 32 franchises. they dont have higher standards, dont draft any different , dont value high character guys, they tolerate criminals etc. 

it hurts, but i have come to the realization we are just another nfl team and i must lower my standards and expectations...........................lets see if i can do it.

 

[Steeler Hitman]

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

awesome post., i agree with 90% of it. 

Thank you. Much appreciated.

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

i do however feel tomlin needs to go. way too much talent to have the post season record he has. he  won with cowhers players. whatever his magic was to put those guys over the top isnt working with the guys he drafted and developed. that is obvious.

I agree with this somewhat, but I have never been one with you won with another coaches team.  Coach T got the team that he got. I love Coach Cowher, but if you remember the knock was long that he couldn't win the big one and he was too much like his mentor Marty Schottenheimer. I also thought that Coach Cowher made a huge mistake in the 2004 season, when he refused to pull Big Ben against the Patriots in the AFC Championship. I thought that Touchdown Tommy Maddox would have given our team and offense a huge lift. But, hey as you said woulda, coulda, shoulda don't cut it.  My point is that all coaches have adversity. It is how you respond.  You have pride and don't like being second. I agree with you there. Before I write off Coach T, I want to see how he responds from this adversity.  True character is shown in how you respond from defeat, troubles and adversity.

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

i want the drama and negative press to continue. i am hoping that someone in the at organization has some pride and feels ashamed, embarrassed etc and wants to turn it around. im afraid tho that there isnt.

I am not against the team feeling some heat as you are alluding to, but I don't want the BS that has been dominating the media about the Steelers.  These so called "anonymous sources" that are giving insider information, etc.  That stuff has to go in my humble opinion.

when you have a owner come out and try to convince me that everything is fine, no drama, no circus, no coaching changes were made and that almost making the playoffs is good enough, leads me to believe that worst times are ahead. can you imagine how comfortable tomlin is after hearing this from the owner?

I don't think that either one of them (Coach T or Mr. Rooney) is comfortable.  Losing sucks. It stinks even more when you have talent assembled that does not pull together and make the most of it. I am somewhat pleased that I have not heard much from Coach T. No "Unleash Hell" or anything like that. Sometimes it is best to keep your mouth shut and show them better than you can tell them.  No doubt, the team culture and image has a black eye. The question is what are they going to do to change the culture, eliminate the negative and right the ship?

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

as fart as i am concerned, this team owes me. i dont need to kiss their arse, they need to kiss mine. am i entitiled?, yep, i am entitled to have my favorite team perform on and off the field up to their potential. if they choose not to do that, i will continue to talk sh!t about them. they need to earn my respect. i am not a 'die hard' fan that feels i need to worship them at all cost. 

You are "entitled" to have your opinion. You don't have to exude "homerism" or never criticize the team to be loyal. I am disappointed, frustrated, embarrassed and angry about a lot of things with the Steelers.  To your point, "Respect is earned." On both sides, I may add.

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

i am so embarrassed by this team, i refuse to wear the 25 items of steeler clothing i own. i removed my steeler license plate from my truck

call me old, spoiled, not  a true fan whatever, but this isnt the team i grew up with. the steelers arent the model franchise anymore.

That is the part of the disappointment that hurts the most.  The Steelers pride, toughness, discipline and resilience are not what was there in the 70's.  We also don't have a team with all of those HOF players, leaders and  guys like LC Greenwood and Donnie Shell who should be in the HOF.  The owner and coach share the lions share of the blame, but this team has been devoid of great locker room leadership and players who would hold their teammates accountable.  I am certainly not there to hear everything that goes on, but that is my perception.  There are no Greg Lloyd, Rod Woodson and Kevin Green on this team from a leadership standpoint.

who gives a rats arse if they had only 3 coaches in 50 years,? the steelers are just 1 of 32 franchises. they dont have higher standards, dont draft any different , dont value high character guys, they tolerate criminals etc. 

Most teams compromise "total integrity" for winning.  This is not a problem when you are winning SB's, but when you don't get there it is.  AB does not seem like the same AB that I saw in training camp back in 2011 and 2012.  He may work his tail off the same, but he was more humble and hungry in my humble opinion.  Some people can't handle a little success.  To quote something that Bill Cowher used to tell all of his AFC North Champion teams, "You haven't won anything yet, so stop acting like you have!"

On 2/21/2019 at 5:13 PM, muncher said:

it hurts, but i have come to the realization we are just another nfl team and i must lower my standards and expectations...........................lets see if i can do it.

 

I agree that it hurts, but I refuse to lower my expectations of this team.  I will deal with some harsh realities, but my standards and expectations of the Pittsburgh Steelers will remain high as long as I am a part of Steelers Nation. The 2018 Steelers did not play to their full potential for many reasons. That is what bothers me: They missed an opportunity to compete to win a Super Bowl, that they can't get back. They played and finished like 9-6-1 team that finished 2-4 in their final six games including losing some games to less talented teams and not finishing games against good teams. That is not the stuff that championships are made of. This 2019 is a new season, how will everyone respond?

[Magnus-Viktor]

By the way, I just saw something yesterday where Colbert (I think) came right out and said they would trade him to whoever gave the Steelers the best return for Brown.  In division or not, doesn't matter.  They also said if they don't get value, they'll keep him.  They don't have to trade him, so they won't, and whoever said this was foolish enough to have faith in Tomlin being able to get it under control and make it work if they kept him.

[cjfollett]

They should trade Mr. Big Chest to a QB-challenged team. AFC/NFC doesn't matter.  Let him go thru a season where the QB throws over his head and at his feet week after week.  A season with 50 catches for 750 yards and 2 TDs will look real good on his resume. 

[Magnus-Viktor]

On 3/1/2019 at 2:30 PM, cjfollett said:

They should trade Mr. Big Chest to a QB-challenged team. AFC/NFC doesn't matter.  Let him go thru a season where the QB throws over his head and at his feet week after week.  A season with 50 catches for 750 yards and 2 TDs will look real good on his resume. 

That sounds like what Larry Fitzgerald said about him.  The commentators on NFL N during the combine talked about his comments on Antonio Brown, saying he didn't appreciate what a great QB he's had his entire career.  

 

True story.