GHARMON9 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I didn't catch much Packer Football last season, but I wanted to get the consensus on these three guys going forward. From the bit I do not looking at stats, combine stats and the few games I caught. MVS - The best of the three buy a healthy margin right now. I also think he's the fastest. A completely different mold that packers never really have had. Hope he can develop. He's 24 so a little bit older for a 2nd year player. Career - 38 Catches, 581 Yards, 15.3 YPC, 60 LNG, 2 TD ESB - I didn't really remember him have any pack in the games I watched. He's also a bigger WR we have never really had in Greenbay. Seems like a deep threat based on his averages. He's also has age on his side at only 22 Years old Career - 21 Catches, 328 Yards, 15.6 YPC, 54 LNG, 0 TD Moore- Huge disappointment so far. Had a great combine and decent tape, I don't really remember seeing him on the field for the most part. 23 years old. Career - 2 Catches, 15 Yards , 7.5 YPC, 10 LNG, 0 TD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 If you polled Packer fans (which really would be a good exercise), I think the only consensus you'd see is on Moore (really didn't deserve a roster spot and if he doesn't show up in camp is gone). ESB and Moore you'd see debate on being anywhere from going being comfortable with both being the #2/3rd wr options to still projects but definitely on the 53. I tend to be on the side that ESB/MVS should be viewed as inconsistent 3rd/4th wrs with solid ceilings but might bomb out and be out of the league in 2 years (with a little more love for MVS). That is me though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hands Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 MVS wasn't expected to do as well as he did. Every team knew his speed, but route running and consistent hands were his weakness. He went to train with Randy Moss and came to camp with the right attitude. What he needs to do for improvement is gain more separation by changing his route speed. Can't try to outrun everyone on every route. His momentum was slowing down towards the end of the season. The rookie wall as they say. ESB got better as the season went on. At the end of the season he was playing better than MVS. He's a physical WR, but he runs routes with more precision and discipline than MVS. He seems to catch the ball more away from his body verses MVS. He was considered a 2-3 round WR prior to the draft and slipped badly. I really don't know why, but it was a great pick for Green Bay. Also remember that MVS ran the forty in 4.37, and ESB in what 4.46(?) which isn't a tenth of a second difference. Both of those guys seem to be pro ready and it shows with their stats. These are rookies and expect both to get much better and avoid the soph slump. If I had to guess who will be better....I would go with ESB. Moore is really a typical rookie receiver taken in the middle rounds and his lack of progress may be because of his college experience. They din't play a spread, but he seems totally lost in the pro style attack. He could be a solid starter if he commits himself to a strong off-season of study. So I think Green Bay captured two starting WR that are fast and have shown they can catch the ball. Maybe next year or the year after they will be highly sought after in FFLs. Moore could come along...have to wait and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arthur Penske Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I don't know if you can call a mid round rookie a huge disappointment. Give him a shot to learn an NFL Offense and see what he can do after his rookie year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moretti19 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I think something important to note as well is that ARod was off quite a bit. I remember at least 3 time MVS had burned his defender and should have had a 60+ yard touchdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gopackgo247 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 WR is all about development. lets see where these 3 are in a few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I think that changing the offensive scheme has the biggest effect on J'Mon unfortunately, because he clearly struggled with understanding the concepts and language last year. I hope that he takes this scheme on a little better which is a shame. I still think his upside is huge - his twitch and routes are near elite for his size, but the mental side and drops have a ways to go. ESB has the highest floor and is the youngest. MVS has the highest ceiling mainly because, as has been said specifically by palmy, by all accounts he has the right attitude and he wants it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubz41 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 14 minutes ago, JBURGE said: I think that changing the offensive scheme has the biggest effect on J'Mon unfortunately, because he clearly struggled with understanding the concepts and language last year. I hope that he takes this scheme on a little better which is a shame. I still think his upside is huge - his twitch and routes are near elite for his size, but the mental side and drops have a ways to go. ESB has the highest floor and is the youngest. MVS has the highest ceiling mainly because, as has been said specifically by palmy, by all accounts he has the right attitude and he wants it. This is a great, brief summary. Totally agree. All three are solidly in play for roster spots and MVS and ESB have flashed enough to think they may have decent production next year. The WR room leaves me with optimism going forward. Hope we don't sign a veteran WR to slow down their development. Allison and Kumerow provide enough 'vet' effect for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 I'm hopeful to see more development but I'm by no means overly confident. I'm least confident about Moore who didn't have a regular season snap all year where he looked like he deserved an active roster spot. The fact that Kumerow, who needed 4 years in the NFL before he was able to register his first catch, passed him on the depth chart like he was standing still is concerning for me. Mind you Kumerow was not able to make some pretty questionable receiving cores over his 4 years around the NFL. IMO, if we're not going to help the position group out this offseason we're going to need to see either MVS or ESB develop at Randall Cobb-esk rate (from a #4 caliber WR as a rookie to a high end starter in year 2). One of them will need to develop into a high end starting caliber NFL WR next season if we expect to have a consistant, capable playoff caliber offense. I'm of the belief that there is no such thing as too much WR talent. I'm hoping we spend one of our first 3 or 4 picks on a WR for insurance. There is absolutely no guarantee we're going to see any improvement out of any of the rookies and Allison is an UFA after next season. It's not often that WRs who weren't much better than ordinary in college go onto the NFL and develop into high end starters. Whether it was Jeff Janis' Arizona playoff game where he looked like a star or Jarrett Boykin's 2013 season, Green Bay's offense over the years has shown us that production doesn't automatically equate to starting WR talent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 There's essentially 2 trains of thought on this forum with regards to our WRs. The majority of the forum like what we've seen from our young WRs (ESB and MVS in particular), but would be like to bring in competition (i.e. Day 2 draft pick or a mid-to-lower tier FA signing). There's a small portion that don't believe in the production from last year and have every intention of trying to bury them on tehe depth chart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 2 hours ago, SSG said: I'm hopeful to see more development but I'm by no means overly confident. I'm least confident about Moore who didn't have a regular season snap all year where he looked like he deserved an active roster spot. The fact that Kumerow, who needed 4 years in the NFL before he was able to register his first catch, passed him on the depth chart like he was standing still is concerning for me. Mind you Kumerow was not able to make some pretty questionable receiving cores over his 4 years around the NFL. IMO, if we're not going to help the position group out this offseason we're going to need to see either MVS or ESB develop at Randall Cobb-esk rate (from a #4 caliber WR as a rookie to a high end starter in year 2). One of them will need to develop into a high end starting caliber NFL WR next season if we expect to have a consistant, capable playoff caliber offense. I'm of the belief that there is no such thing as too much WR talent. I'm hoping we spend one of our first 3 or 4 picks on a WR for insurance. There is absolutely no guarantee we're going to see any improvement out of any of the rookies and Allison is an UFA after next season. It's not often that WRs who weren't much better than ordinary in college go onto the NFL and develop into high end starters. Whether it was Jeff Janis' Arizona playoff game where he looked like a star or Jarrett Boykin's 2013 season, Green Bay's offense over the years has shown us that production doesn't automatically equate to starting WR talent. So much wrong here, I don't know where to begin. There's literally a double-standard going on here. Kumerow in his 4th season in the league is getting the benefit of the doubt, and being viewed as a legitimate piece, but the guy who was a 5th round pick and a rookie that actually produced is a liability to flop. I don't know how anyone can go to bat for Kumerow and then be skeptical of the production of MVS. It's mind-boggling and nothing to support that argument. IF MVS or ESB develop at a "Randall Cobb-esk" rate, I'm going to be disappointed. That means they didn't improve, they just got more opportunities. Cobb went from being targeted 31 times as a rookie to 104 times. Despite being targeted more than 3 times as many times as a rookie, his yardage only YPC didn't triple like you figured it would. Cobb wasn't that particularly good as a development type. And if you're arguing that opportunities are what held MVS/ESB back, your changing your tune from the other argument you made. And yes, there is such thing as too much talent. Randall Cobb (as a SRP) only received 31 targets as a rookie. He was 7th on that '11 Packers roster in terms of targets. Let me ask you this, who was going to make a bigger impact on the '11 Packers' roster, Randall Cobb or Justin Houston/DeMarco Murray/Jurrell Casey? You need 2-3 quality WRs, some solid developmental types and ST types behind that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacReady Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 Only in Green Bay are fans not content with 38, 21 and 2 reception rookie seasons out of 5th, 6th and 4th round receivers. Funny, because our own division in the past 4 years produced a first round receiver with a 1 reception rookie season and another first round receiver with a 19 catch rookie season. In fact, our 5th round receiver's rookie season was better than Kevin Whites three year career. Also in fact, our 5th round receiver has more yards, more touchdowns and 18 less receptions than Laquon Treadwell does in his career. And people still want a second or even first round receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBURGE Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 27 minutes ago, CWood21 said: There's essentially 2 trains of thought on this forum with regards to our WRs. The majority of the forum like what we've seen from our young WRs (ESB and MVS in particular), but would be like to bring in competition (i.e. Day 2 draft pick or a mid-to-lower tier FA signing). There's a small portion that don't believe in the production from last year and have every intention of trying to bury them on tehe depth chart. Some want to add nothing, some want a day 2 pick or a mid to low tier FA signing, and then there's a small portion who want to sign a bonafide starting WR or draft one in the 1st round. Who are the people who want to bury MVS and ESB on the depth chart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 13 minutes ago, Outpost31 said: In fact, our 5th round receiver's rookie season was better than Kevin Whites three year career. Is that the CHI WR drafted with a first round pick? If so, didnt he lose almost two seasons full seasons to knee injuries? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted February 22, 2019 Share Posted February 22, 2019 11 minutes ago, JBURGE said: Some want to add nothing, some want a day 2 pick or a mid to low tier FA signing, and then there's a small portion who want to sign a bonafide starting WR or draft one in the 1st round. Who are the people who want to bury MVS and ESB on the depth chart? I'd argue that those who want to sign one of the top tier FA and draft an early WR as someone who wants to bury MVS and ESB on the depth chart... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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