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Pick a bust - 2019

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5 minutes ago, MSURacerDT55 said:

No because they finally had a QB that could consistently get them the ball (to showcase their skills), something they couldnt do a year ago,not hard to follow

So you agree they are indeed talented and deserving of their projected draft spots? 

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31 minutes ago, BayRaider said:

So you agree they are indeed talented and deserving of their projected draft spots? 

I never argued they didn't, they just were never able to reach their full potential with the QB we had

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17 hours ago, Ozzy said:

Fromm I am not that high on,the issue with him I do not see an elite arm, and he has never passed for over 3000 yards in a season ever at Georgia.  Aaron Murray who was a 5th round pick out of Georgia, started four years in a row and passed for well over 3000 yards every season he played including his FR and SOPH years.  He is no longer in the NFL and clearly never did much when he was in the league. So that is what concerns me with Fromm.

How in the world do you come to this conclusion? Murray and Fromm had 2 different HC's and different OC's on top of that. Different philosophies and schemes. Fromm hasn't been asked to throw much due to the Georgia run game (4 different 1000 yard rushers in his 2 seasons). I can understand having concerns about Fromm, but worrying about him because of Aaron Murray is absurd.

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8 minutes ago, BowlesDawgDX said:

How in the world do you come to this conclusion? Murray and Fromm had 2 different HC's and different OC's on top of that. Different philosophies and schemes. Fromm hasn't been asked to throw much due to the Georgia run game (4 different 1000 yard rushers in his 2 seasons). I can understand having concerns about Fromm, but worrying about him because of Aaron Murray is absurd.

It's completely fair to critique his arm. I think Fromm is going to be a good NFL QB and is probably the #1 or #2 QB in next year's draft. But he's not physically talented at all. That's the only criticism I have about him right now. To critique him for throwing for less yards than Aaron Murray is not fair.

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There is a lot of talk with Haskins and his high completion percentage in college, and it is very impressive especially this past season but to put it in context from 2018-2008 there has been many QBs with a high completion percentage in the 69-74% range.   And obviously they are not all super stars in the NFL, and is clearly system dependent in a lot of the cases.  Also Ryan Day coached QB with Chip Kelly in the NFL and clearly took some of his ideas and offensive concepts, and yeah Marcus Mariota had a 68% competition percentage in college when he was with Chip Kelly and that continued after Chip left with a very similar system.  With Mariota that accuracy has not exactly translated perfectly to the NFL.

 

Completion percentage:

Jack Abraham 73
Gardner Minshew 70
Brent Stockstill 70
Dwayne Haskins 70
Tua Tagovailoa 69
Kyler Murray 69
Baker Mayfield 71
Luke Falk 70
Zach Terrell 69
Brandon Doughty 71
Grant Hedrick 70
Teddy Bridgewater 71
Taylor Heinicke 71
Johnny Manzeil 69
David Fales 72
Geno Smith 71
Kellen Moore 74
Russell Wilson 72
Robert Griffin III 72
Brandon Weeden 72
Andrew Luck 71
Nick Foles 69
Case Keenum 71
Matt Barkley 69
Dan Persa 73
Greg McElroy 72
Scott Tolzien 70
Colt McCoy 70
Dan LeFevour 69
Chase Daniel 72
Graham Harrell 70

Of course there are some great QBs on this list but there are also some not so great ones as well.  Will be interesting to see how Haskins accuracy in a different system translates.  Also could argue that he had the most deepest WR core out of any QB on this list.  Tua might be an argument, he has a ton of help as well and benefits a lot from it, but they do not have the depth Ohio State had this past season I feel.  That is why it was hard to get a feel for Mason Rudolph outside that system last year because he had some much talent to throw to much less being in the Big 12.  He had Washington, Ateman, McClesky, Johnson, Lacy and Stoner, and even with that group I would say it is not deep as Ohio State had this past season.  

 

 

 

8 hours ago, BowlesDawgDX said:

How in the world do you come to this conclusion? Murray and Fromm had 2 different HC's and different OC's on top of that. Different philosophies and schemes. Fromm hasn't been asked to throw much due to the Georgia run game (4 different 1000 yard rushers in his 2 seasons). I can understand having concerns about Fromm, but worrying about him because of Aaron Murray is absurd.

Ever think I compare him to Aaron Murray because that is what his arm reminds me of?  It is nothing special, he does not have great velocity but is a good game manager and benefits greatly from a Alabama style running attack that uses multiple high level RBs and rotates them, not to mention he had many weapons to throw to as well.  Will be interesting how Fromm does next year with out as many weapons because 4 out of his top 5 leading receivers will be gone.  They do have Cager coming in and some talent so might not be a huge issue.

They do not ask Fromm to do much because if they did they would not win as many games, that is not exactly a good thing.  He benefits greatly from playing with a fine defense and a great run game.  I do like his composure in the pocket, is a fine game manager and does a lot of things well, but to think of him as some super elite, high 1st round pick, John Elway type QB, no freaking way.  

Oh and Aaron Murray played with Todd Gurley, Keith Marshall, Malcolm Mitchell, Chris Conley, Tavarres King and others so yeah he was surrounded by talent as well, yet still put up numbers Fromm has yet to accomplish.  That is all the offensive coordinators fault?  I do not think so.  

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On 2/25/2019 at 12:10 PM, Kiwibrown said:

Sorry, if he is so small he would need a great arm, accuracy and strength, which he doesnt seem to have.

I thought Murray had a pretty damn good arm and accuracy. It's just the frame and his weird interviews that are throwing people off.

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17 minutes ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I thought Murray had a pretty damn good arm and accuracy. It's just the frame and his weird interviews that are throwing people off.

Agree, pretty sure his arm is just fine.  This past year his arm was surprisingly accurate compared to what he looked like as a freshman at Texas A&M.

giphy.gif?ssl=1

 

 

 

And he is clearly a pretty great athlete and is crazy nimble in the open field.  I would say Lamar Jackson last year is probably a little faster than Kyler but Kyler is clearly quicker side to side and throws a better looking ball and has better touch than Lamar did.  

giphy-downsized-large.gif

 

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On 2/25/2019 at 2:10 PM, Kiwibrown said:

Sorry, if he is so small he would need a great arm, accuracy and strength, which he doesnt seem to have.

He's got a great arm, though - both from the pocket and throwing off different platforms on the move. Plenty of velocity, and he's also very accurate. Definitely not a concern I've heard before. I mean, the guy could have been a professional baseball player, and we're worried about his arm?

Not sure if we're talking about the same Kyler Murray.

Edited by SmittyBacall

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12 hours ago, RaidersAreOne said:

I thought Murray had a pretty damn good arm and accuracy. It's just the frame and his weird interviews that are throwing people off.

Correct, and likely hand size. 

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18 hours ago, Ozzy said:

There is a lot of talk with Haskins and his high completion percentage in college, and it is very impressive especially this past season but to put it in context from 2018-2008 there has been many QBs with a high completion percentage in the 69-74% range.   And obviously they are not all super stars in the NFL, and is clearly system dependent in a lot of the cases.  Also Ryan Day coached QB with Chip Kelly in the NFL and clearly took some of his ideas and offensive concepts, and yeah Marcus Mariota had a 68% competition percentage in college when he was with Chip Kelly and that continued after Chip left with a very similar system.  With Mariota that accuracy has not exactly translated perfectly to the NFL.

 

Completion percentage:

Jack Abraham 73
Gardner Minshew 70
Brent Stockstill 70
Dwayne Haskins 70
Tua Tagovailoa 69
Kyler Murray 69
Baker Mayfield 71
Luke Falk 70
Zach Terrell 69
Brandon Doughty 71
Grant Hedrick 70
Teddy Bridgewater 71
Taylor Heinicke 71
Johnny Manzeil 69
David Fales 72
Geno Smith 71
Kellen Moore 74
Russell Wilson 72
Robert Griffin III 72
Brandon Weeden 72
Andrew Luck 71
Nick Foles 69
Case Keenum 71
Matt Barkley 69
Dan Persa 73
Greg McElroy 72
Scott Tolzien 70
Colt McCoy 70
Dan LeFevour 69
Chase Daniel 72
Graham Harrell 70

Of course there are some great QBs on this list but there are also some not so great ones as well.  Will be interesting to see how Haskins accuracy in a different system translates.  Also could argue that he had the most deepest WR core out of any QB on this list.  Tua might be an argument, he has a ton of help as well and benefits a lot from it, but they do not have the depth Ohio State had this past season I feel.  That is why it was hard to get a feel for Mason Rudolph outside that system last year because he had some much talent to throw to much less being in the Big 12.  He had Washington, Ateman, McClesky, Johnson, Lacy and Stoner, and even with that group I would say it is not deep as Ohio State had this past season.  

 

 

 

Ever think I compare him to Aaron Murray because that is what his arm reminds me of?  It is nothing special, he does not have great velocity but is a good game manager and benefits greatly from a Alabama style running attack that uses multiple high level RBs and rotates them, not to mention he had many weapons to throw to as well.  Will be interesting how Fromm does next year with out as many weapons because 4 out of his top 5 leading receivers will be gone.  They do have Cager coming in and some talent so might not be a huge issue.

They do not ask Fromm to do much because if they did they would not win as many games, that is not exactly a good thing.  He benefits greatly from playing with a fine defense and a great run game.  I do like his composure in the pocket, is a fine game manager and does a lot of things well, but to think of him as some super elite, high 1st round pick, John Elway type QB, no freaking way.  

Oh and Aaron Murray played with Todd Gurley, Keith Marshall, Malcolm Mitchell, Chris Conley, Tavarres King and others so yeah he was surrounded by talent as well, yet still put up numbers Fromm has yet to accomplish.  That is all the offensive coordinators fault?  I do not think so.  

You try to lump him in and basically say its the system that is the cause of the success but if that were the case, JT Barrett would have been wildly successful in this offense as well, he wasn't. Also if you actually watched film, you would see the difficulty of throw he makes in that offense, which varies to short to deep which sets him apart. Also I notice that you didn't mention his completion % vs pressure that you so adamantly said he struggled at? Or how clutch even more clutch he was on 3rd down. And Alabama's WRs are twice the group of OSU's, that's common knowledge.

If you don't like the guy, just say it, but to try to just lazily throw him amongst a group of failed system QBs and make it seem as if he doesn't have the arm talent to set him apart is not right. Just make sure you keep that stance when he is successful

Edited by MSURacerDT55

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If I had to pick someone who would bust...

DK Metcalf? Love the size-speed combo - he just hasn't put it all together for a full season. I'd love to look like an idiot for saying this, though, because he's just so gifted. But if we're picking someone with high bust potential, it's him. He has struggled to stay on the field and also there have been times when it looked like his chemistry with Ta'Amu are off. People are talking about him being the #1 receiver this year, and I don't know if I would slot him there. He's talented, but the hype is unreal sometimes. Just worried he's more Donte Moncrief than Calvin Johnson.

 

As far as the QB discussion goes, I like both Haskins and Murray. Legit, my only problem with Murray is that you'll need to tailor-make your offense for him to account for the height. He looks thick enough - stockier than Cousins or Goff.

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5 minutes ago, HoboRocket said:

Legit, my only problem with Murray is that you'll need to tailor-make your offense for him to account for the height. 

Regarding this comment, any good coach would do build around his talent anyways.

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Greedy Williams to me could be the next Justin Gilbert. He's a freak athlete but in all honesty leaves a lot to be desired in terms of polish from a cover corner. He's a definite boom or bust guy for me.

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I know both of these guys' stock is slipping, but Jeffery Simmons and Greg Little are both built like dinosaurs. On screen they look like NFL Street versions of characters in a game of Madden. I can see injuries (already started with Simmons) and quickness being a giant problem for both of these guys. 

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6 hours ago, SmittyBacall said:

He's got a great arm, though - both from the pocket and throwing off different platforms on the move. Plenty of velocity, and he's also very accurate. Definitely not a concern I've heard before. I mean, the guy could have been a professional baseball player, and we're worried about his arm?

Not sure if we're talking about the same Kyler Murray.

Tbh I know nothing about the draft, I heard his arm was an issue. 

 

Also he floats the ball a bit and has to throw it on an ark be ause he is 5'9"

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