reddevil Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: You also have to take into account team needs though and your existing personnel. Mo Hurst flashed last season and has a ton of potential. It's redundant to draft a very similar player when we have holes at almost every other position. I get what you're saying and if there were a player who I saw who was similar in potential, even with a teeny drop off and a position of greater need, I'd be all in. I just think there is quite a big drop off from Oliver to the next best DE or other position. I do like a load of other players in that next group down - Ferrell, White, Gary and even more in the group below that value wise. I'd just need a trade down to justify taking them. If we managed to trade back once or even twice, we could come away with some excellent players. I just think Oliver is the only one after the big 3 worth pick 4 from a talent viewpoint at this stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, reddevil said: I get what you're saying and if there were a player who I saw who was similar in potential, even with a teeny drop off and a position of greater need, I'd be all in. I just think there is quite a big drop off from Oliver to the next best DE or other position. I do like a load of other players in that next group down - Ferrell, White, Gary and even more in the group below that value wise. I'd just need a trade down to justify taking them. If we managed to trade back once or even twice, we could come away with some excellent players. I just think Oliver is the only one after the big 3 worth pick 4 from a talent viewpoint at this stage. I think Gruden believes in the guys that he picked last year and is going to give them more than 1 season before drafting over them. It takes time to get acclimated to the league and most guys don't set the world on fire in their rookie seasons. Kolton Miller, PJ Hall, and Brandon Parker were all considered projects coming into the draft last year but we took them because we saw elite physical traits that Gruden wants to coach up. We have such a huge hole on the edge that drafting another interior DL just doesn't make sense. A trade back seems like the most likely scenario at this point unless Bosa slips to us by some miracle. If the staff is hell bent on drafting another DT, I'd prefer we target Jeffery Simmons at 27 or 35. Simmons at one of those slots is a better value than Oliver at 4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, NYRaider said: I think Gruden believes in the guys that he picked last year and is going to give them more than 1 season before drafting over them. It takes time to get acclimated to the league and most guys don't set the world on fire in their rookie seasons. Kolton Miller, PJ Hall, and Brandon Parker were all considered projects coming into the draft last year but we took them because we saw elite physical traits that Gruden wants to coach up. We have such a huge hole on the edge that drafting another interior DL just doesn't make sense. A trade back seems like the most likely scenario at this point unless Bosa slips to us by some miracle. If the staff is hell bent on drafting another DT, I'd prefer we target Jeffery Simmons at 27 or 35. Simmons at one of those slots is a better value than Oliver at 4. I hope we do have the chance to move back. Like I said, I think there's a batch of about 10-15 players who are about the same level who will be there in round one that could really help us out. This all could be largely redundant anyway as all we need is for one team to fall on love with Murray and trade up, or the Cards take him and we can end up with Q or Allen. Out of interest, would you take Williams if he was there at 4? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, reddevil said: Out of interest, would you take Williams if he was there at 4? No. I'd use that to get more assets in a trade down and target Ferrell, Sweat, Burns, or Polite in the middle of the first round. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddevil Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, NYRaider said: No. I'd use that to get more assets in a trade down and target Ferrell, Sweat, Burns, or Polite in the middle of the first round. Interesting. Do you really rate Hurst and Hall that high that you wouldn't want Williams? I like both our rooks and feel like they can be very solid players for us, but neither of them have the look of potential game changing talents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, reddevil said: Interesting. Do you really rate Hurst and Hall that high that you wouldn't want Williams? I like both our rooks and feel like they can be very solid players for us, but neither of them have the look of potential game changing talents. It's too early to say that. Hurst had 4 sacks as a rookie and so did Khalil Mack. Should we have given up on Mack after his rookie season? Hall is one of the most athletic DT to enter the league in a while, he's just a project. I'm expecting to see a big jump from both Hall and Hurst this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frankie2Gunz Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 23 minutes ago, NYRaider said: He's a good player and prospect, but he's not an elite prospect. He's not on the same level as Quinnen Williams or Nick Bosa as a prospect, those are the only two elite guys in this class. Ideally who would you like at 4 minus Bosa? I personally would love to get Allen but unfortunately I feel like he'll be gone. Of the "big 3" I realistically see Williams being available at 4 if a team trades up for a QB. Ultimately we are in a great position to take one of the big 3 or trade back to a QB needy team if no one jumps ahead of us for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 11 minutes ago, Frankie2Gunz said: Ideally who would you like at 4 minus Bosa? I personally would love to get Allen but unfortunately I feel like he'll be gone. Of the "big 3" I realistically see Williams being available at 4 if a team trades up for a QB. Ultimately we are in a great position to take one of the big 3 or trade back to a QB needy team if no one jumps ahead of us for one. I really don't want anyone at 4 other than Nick Bosa or maybe Josh Allen but I'm still on the fence about him too. I think Oliver or Williams would be a luxury pick because we have so many holes and they're both going to be 3T in the league which is where Hurst plays. I think Ferrell, Sweat, Burns, or Polite with a trade down would be the best move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 28 minutes ago, NYRaider said: It's too early to say that. Hurst had 4 sacks as a rookie and so did Khalil Mack. Should we have given up on Mack after his rookie season? Hall is one of the most athletic DT to enter the league in a while, he's just a project. I'm expecting to see a big jump from both Hall and Hurst this season. You’re way over thinking this. If Williams is there you take him. He’s gonna be a superstar. Hall can be a rotational guy. Always good to have a super deep DLine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agarcia34 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 You take Williams at 4 if he’s there. Williams play style is so different from Hurst and I think he fits perfectly next to Hurst. Hurst is all about quickness and Williams plays with power. Hall can be a nice piece as depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 If Williams, Allen, or Bosa is there at #4 we take them without question unless there is an unreal trade back scenario. I would like to see Dexter Lawrence with one of the later picks especially if we do not get Q. After looking at Sweat's measurements I am curious to see him doing drills. If he can add a little more weight (looks like he could add 15-20 lbs in his legs alone) and still be a great athlete on the edge he may be the type to take a chance on early. He has Peppers frame but is he a freaky athlete. He looks like he could still put a lot more weight on that frame and once he develops his lower half he could be a monster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Good thing Josh Allen is not a WR. Those are some small hands for a man his size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BayRaider Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 PFF’s Top 50 https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2019-nfl-draft-board-the-pre-combine-top-50 If Murray is there at 4 (which I hope he isn’t) I’m getting pretty confident Mayock/Gruden pull the trigger... Ed Oliver at #21 and needs a lot of improvement still. Should quiet Frankie down a bit. Edit: Link Added, guess I forgot to paste it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NCOUGHMAN Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 Andre Dillard is such a stud devin white a even 6ft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drfrey13 Posted March 1, 2019 Share Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, BayRaider said: PFF’s Top 50 If Murray is there at 4 (which I hope he isn’t) I’m getting pretty confident Mayock/Gruden pull the trigger... Ed Oliver at #21 and needs a lot of improvement still. Should quiet Frankie down a bit. On a trade I hope. They know Carr better than anyone else so I have to trust them but I think it would be premature to draft a QB this high right now. I would rather see a QB after the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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