The direction of the Broncos in the near future.

[BroncoSojia]

I could've posted this topic in the Broncos sub forum, Broncos subreddit, or another forum, but I wanted to get perspectives from other team's fans.

The Broncos currently have a lot of holes everywhere. From QB, TE, WR, OL, to DL, LB, C, S. With this many holes and not enough young talent, (especially at QB) most teams in this position would look to rebuild right? Well that's not what Elway is doing.

He's traded for Flacco, a year after signing Keenum, (which means we have almost 40 million dollars wrapped up in crappy QBs) and there are reports Elway views Flacco as a significant upgrade from Keenum and believe that he can lead us to the playoffs next year. He's bringing back older veterans like Wolfe, Veldheer, Sanders, and is also planing to be very active in FA. He obviously still views this team as a playoff contender.

 I don't. I think we should be rebuilding and I think we should've drafted a QB high last year and we should draft one high this year. I also think we should be shedding older veteran players, not bringing them back. I'm getting increasingly frustrated with Elway's stubbornness and refusal to admit that we should be rebuilding. It's almost to the point where I want him to be gone, but with our ownership situation, the chances of him being fired in the near future are slim to none.

 Right now, with Elway's actions, we're mired in mediocrity; not quite good enough to get to the playoffs and do anything, but not quite bad enough to bottom out for a top 5 pick. And I'm pretty sure as fans of any team in any league in this country would tell you, that's one place you do not want to be.

 

Thoughts?

 

[J-ALL-DAY]

You guys should absolutely be looking to drafting a QB in the first round. If you really like one of the top QBs, then don't hesitate to move up and grab them. Your core group that helped win a SB are mostly starting to age or have left elsewhere, so the time is right to rebuild. You had your time to reload and it didn't work out. This isn't a team that is going to be able to compete for a SB anytime soon, especially not without a stud QB. Only so long you can get away with fielding out the likes of Keenum and Flacco. It may sound blasphemy, but I'd try to see what I can get for Miller. He may be able to field you guys a 1st rounder and a high 2nd. But with Sanders returning and Elway's comments, he truly does believe you guys can compete next year. All that is doing is delaying the inevitable. 

[BroncoSojia]

11 minutes ago, J-ALL-DAY said:

You guys should absolutely be looking to drafting a QB in the first round. If you really like one of the top QBs, then don't hesitate to move up and grab them. Your core group that helped win a SB are mostly starting to age or have left elsewhere, so the time is right to rebuild. You had your time to reload and it didn't work out. This isn't a team that is going to be able to compete for a SB anytime soon, especially not without a stud QB. Only so long you can get away with fielding out the likes of Keenum and Flacco. It may sound blasphemy, but I'd try to see what I can get for Miller. He may be able to field you guys a 1st rounder and a high 2nd. But with Sanders returning and Elway's comments, he truly does believe you guys can compete next year. All that is doing is delaying the inevitable. 

There were discussions about this earlier this year considering he's the only tradable asset we have, but it was immediately shot down by every local broncos reporter. There are absolutely no plans to trade Von Miller.

[J-ALL-DAY]

16 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

There were discussions about this earlier this year considering he's the only tradable asset we have, but it was immediately shot down by every local broncos reporter. There are absolutely no plans to trade Von Miller.

Yeah, because it is clear Elway thinks you guys have a legitimate shot to compete next season. If you are bringing back Sanders, then it doesn't make sense to get rid of Miller. If you are to go in rebuild mode, you have to be all in. I understood the decision to just try to reload after the SB season, but it's been three mediocre to bad seasons in a row. Elway needs to come to terms that this team isn't close to winning a SB and draft a QB and build around him. Of course, he may be a bit hesitant after the Lynch fiasco, but the Keenum's and Flacco's of the world aren't the answer either. Really, he needs someone around him that knows how to evaluate QBs. And your OC may be that guy. He is the one that discovered Mullens for us and while he isn't great, he's still pretty damn valuable for being an UDFA. Scangarello was also the one that helped Jimmy G learn the playbook so quickly and was able to bring him up to speed that led to five consecutive wins in 2017 after he was traded midseason. 

[Scoundrel]

54 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

I could've posted this topic in the Broncos sub forum, Broncos subreddit, or another forum, but I wanted to get perspectives from other team's fans.

The Broncos currently have a lot of holes everywhere. From QB, TE, WR, OL, to DL, LB, C, S. With this many holes and not enough young talent, (especially at QB) most teams in this position would look to rebuild right? Well that's not what Elway is doing.

He's traded for Flacco, a year after signing Keenum, (which means we have almost 40 million dollars wrapped up in crappy QBs) and there are reports Elway views Flacco as a significant upgrade from Keenum and believe that he can lead us to the playoffs next year. He's bringing back older veterans like Wolfe, Veldheer, Sanders, and is also planing to be very active in FA. He obviously still views this team as a playoff contender.

 I don't. I think we should be rebuilding and I think we should've drafted a QB high last year and we should draft one high this year. I also think we should be shedding older veteran players, not bringing them back. I'm getting increasingly frustrated with Elway's stubbornness and refusal to admit that we should be rebuilding. It's almost to the point where I want him to be gone, but with our ownership situation, the chances of him being fired in the near future are slim to none.

 Right now, with Elway's actions, we're mired in mediocrity; not quite good enough to get to the playoffs and do anything, but not quite bad enough to bottom out for a top 5 pick. And I'm pretty sure as fans of any team in any league in this country would tell you, that's one place you do not want to be.

 

Thoughts?

 

Not saying you are wrong. But you are likely going to get a lot of bashing Elway here and little to no support for what Elway is doing. (I agree with you by the way). This should be interesting. 

[ninjapirate]

I do think you guys should rebuild i mean you can't sit in your office and think trading for joe flacco somehows puts you in a realm that competes against patrick mahomes.

[BroncoSojia]

29 minutes ago, Counselor said:

Not saying you are wrong. But you are likely going to get a lot of bashing Elway here and little to no support for what Elway is doing. (I agree with you by the way). This should be interesting. 

Better than listening to other Bronco fans reflexively defend every move Elway makes. The Broncos subreddit is awful in that regard. It's always nice to hear different perspectives about your team from other teams fans, good or bad.

[Scoundrel]

Just now, BroncoSojia said:

Better than listening to other Bronco fans reflexively defend every move Elway makes. The Broncos subreddit is awful in that regard. It's always nice to hear different perspectives about your team from other teams fans, good or bad.

I don’t read it. But yeah it’s nice to get some other opinions. 

[wackywabbit]

Count me in the minority that thinks they have a good plan.

When people say "rebuild" what they mean is that they think they should tank for a better draft pick, but that's not really a thing in the NFL. The strong franchises are constantly building and shifting on the fly. Being terrible for a long stretch of time is not a strategy for building a team. What team in the playoffs got there with a strategy like that? I didn't check them all but I don't believe any of them had a period of multiple sub-6 win seasons in the last 5-6 years where they "rebuilt". 

Broncos traded a 4th for a guy who can absolutely lead a team with a strong defense/running game to the playoffs. They can move on after this year (or another 1-2) for 0 cap hit, which is huge. Having Flacco didn't stop the Ravens from transitioning the franchise over to Lamar, I don't see why it would stop the Broncos, who absolutely should (and will) draft a young QB in the next draft or two. 

[BroncoSojia]

45 minutes ago, wackywabbit said:

Count me in the minority that thinks they have a good plan.

When people say "rebuild" what they mean is that they think they should tank for a better draft pick, but that's not really a thing in the NFL. The strong franchises are constantly building and shifting on the fly. Being terrible for a long stretch of time is not a strategy for building a team. What team in the playoffs got there with a strategy like that? I didn't check them all but I don't believe any of them had a period of multiple sub-6 win seasons in the last 5-6 years where they "rebuilt". 

Broncos traded a 4th for a guy who can absolutely lead a team with a strong defense/running game to the playoffs. They can move on after this year (or another 1-2) for 0 cap hit, which is huge. Having Flacco didn't stop the Ravens from transitioning the franchise over to Lamar, I don't see why it would stop the Broncos, who absolutely should (and will) draft a young QB in the next draft or two. 

Flacco has been the worst starting QB in the league over the last 4 years. On top of that, He's had back and hip issues and he's 34 years old. He was benched for a Tebow-esque QB last year and he's coming to a team that's much worse than the team he was just on. I have no confidence in him "leading" us anywhere.

[wackywabbit]

18 minutes ago, BroncoSojia said:

Flacco has been the worst starting QB in the league over 4 years. On top of that, He's had back and hip issues and he's 34 years old. He was benched for a Tebow-esque QB last year and he's coming to a team that's much worse than the team he was just on. I have no confidence in him "leading" us anywhere.

K. You evaluate Flacco much differently than me. Clearly (some) people who matter think he's a clear upgrade over Case Keenum, who put up very good number in a great situation in Minnesota.

Regardless of that, what exactly is the cost that you are worried about? That 4th round pick? There is no long term money. The $18.5M in one-year salary matters less than a late round pick in terms of how it affects a teams ability to compete with a salary cap that is over 10 times that. If, as you put it, a "Tebow-esque" QB can beat out Flacco, than shouldn't whatever young QB the Broncos bring in be able to do the same?

You can't evaluate a move without considering the cost and there really isn't much here. When the Redskins traded for Alex Smith at the same stage of his career, they gave up a 3rd round pick AND a quality young corner AND gave him $71M guaranteed. That is the kind of move that can actually set back a team. If Flacco hurts his back in traning camp and never takes a snap, then the Broncos can move on in 2020, paying him 0 additional money, and would be able to forget the move in 2021.

[Buckweath]

Broncos are probably getting closer and closer to showing the door to Elway and that's the best thing that could happen to them.

I believe he is one of the worst GMs in the league. 

Sure he managed to sign Manning and did well with free agents to get that SB but he has showed he is rather poor at drafting, has missed multiple times trying to find a QB and is just not good overall.

This being said, I do believe he is going to grab a QB in the 1st round this year. If not, this is just laughable as far as I am concerned but it would just be another bad move for Elway.

And there is no chance the Broncos make the playoffs next year. There is zero chance they finish above the Chiefs and I would be shocked if they finish above the Chargers. I believe they will finish again #3 but it is not out of question at all that the Raiders finish above them.

[BroncoBruin]

The Paxton Lynch pick killed the franchise, everything else is pretty inconsequential compared to that miss. They wasted two years with a talented roster trying to develop him, and I really think last year part of their rationale in not taking a QB was that they were STILL clinging to hope that he'd figure it out. Three years down the drain because of one horrible draft pick. 

[Jakuvious]

2 hours ago, wackywabbit said:

Count me in the minority that thinks they have a good plan.

When people say "rebuild" what they mean is that they think they should tank for a better draft pick, but that's not really a thing in the NFL. The strong franchises are constantly building and shifting on the fly. Being terrible for a long stretch of time is not a strategy for building a team. What team in the playoffs got there with a strategy like that? I didn't check them all but I don't believe any of them had a period of multiple sub-6 win seasons in the last 5-6 years where they "rebuilt". 

Broncos traded a 4th for a guy who can absolutely lead a team with a strong defense/running game to the playoffs. They can move on after this year (or another 1-2) for 0 cap hit, which is huge. Having Flacco didn't stop the Ravens from transitioning the franchise over to Lamar, I don't see why it would stop the Broncos, who absolutely should (and will) draft a young QB in the next draft or two. 

That's definitely not always what people mean when they say rebuild. Sometimes it's just a matter of accepting that you're not going to win with the team you have right now. This isn't people saying an 11-5 or 12-4 team needs to rebuild. That would normally imply a blowup and restart. This is people saying a 6-10 team needs to rebuild. They already have the roster quality of a rebuild in progress, they just have a GM that doesn't seem to want to accept it.

And as far as what team in the playoffs got there through some kind of rebuild? The Bears, Rams, and Eagles all got there with a QB they picked in the top 5 due to recent struggles. The Chiefs were absolutely ready to rebuild post-Alex Smith, Mahomes just developed ahead of schedule. Kind of the same for Houston and Watson. The Colts sucked for Luck. The teams that make the playoffs consistently that haven't been bad in a long time are in that situation because they have a hall of fame veteran QB (Saints, Pats, maybe the Seahawks and Chargers.)

And it's that position that's ultimately the problem with the Broncos current mindset. They need to get a QB. A real QB. You ask what team in the playoffs got in by rebuilding. What I would point to is the fact that not a single post-season team last year got there with a retread QB. 11 of the playoff teams last year got there with a QB they drafted and developed. The 12th has Drew Brees. The Broncos were smart to get Peyton. They've been foolish since to roll with Siemian, Keenum, and now Flacco.

Now, if the Broncos still invest in a rookie QB this year, I'm more fine with what they're doing. I'm more okay with Flacco as a veteran stopgap, though I'm iffy on why you'd bother giving anything up for Flacco when I think Keenum could've handled that same role just fine. But if they just go with Flacco this year, it's just an issue with Elway's mindset. He needs to accept a losing season or two with a rookie/developing QB and give up on vet retreads. It's still mindblowing to me that they drafted a QB in the 1st and only played in for 4 games.

[wackywabbit]

13 minutes ago, Jakuvious said:

And as far as what team in the playoffs got there through some kind of rebuild? The Bears, Rams, and Eagles all got there with a QB they picked in the top 5 due to recent struggles. 

Uh... both the Rams and Eagles traded from outside the top 5 to get their QBs. The Rams went from 15 to get got Goff. Wentz has also never been in the playoffs. So, Trubisky is the only example of reward for "struggling"? Yea... he's not the reason they were in the playoffs. 

So again, I don't understand what people mean by "rebuilding" and what examples can be provided for it executed properly?

Identifying a QB you love and making an aggressive move for him is smart move, but it has nothing to do with rebuilding. Clearly being a terrible team the year before hasn't been a requirement to getting that guy.