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Updated: Jaguars sign Nick Foles

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

That Glennon contract was unbelievable just like the Bradford 1 yr deal too

My thing is if Haskins is that guy and we believe that. I personally think he could be, then why arent we just trading up for him? Give him the keys to the franchise, spend the Foles cap money on weapons?

 

The Jags are just happy to have a decent QB fall in their lap. Ultimately they think they can rekindle 2017 by taking Defilipo and Foles combined with their defense minus possibly Gipson, and Jackson that the defense will remain playing to the same level. They are are also hoping everyone stays healthy I hopes that they can keep Foles up right for 16 games. I love how everyone has amnesias and they forget when Philly was clamoring for Wentz to return basically rushing him back because Foles was so subpar at the beginning of last season but Wentz went down again and Foles did well down the stretch they get into the playoffs and Foles is the darling. It’s a lot of trust but you’ve still yet to see Foles play a full 16 games since probably Obama’s first term and your mortgaging your long term stability on a retread.

 

Everybody looking at this from the outside looking in Colts, Texans, and Titans are shrugging their shoulders because it’s just ehhh they got Foles so what. Nothing about Foles strikes fear into an opponent. You know what you’re going to get steady play with actual weapons.. wait til he gets to the Jags tool shed and it’s going to be fun to see an old soldier go to war with a Swiss Army knife. Jags are depending on Lee to catch the ball with  consistency 🙄 and Chark to step up 😆  Westbrook may take off with a decent QB.. but if that doesn’t work they expect a weapon such as a rookie TE or WR to bail out Foles. *sighs*

Edited by DuvalsKing

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2 minutes ago, Tugboat said:

I'd say there are two pretty clear reasons:

1)Rookie QBs and the ups and downs they typically have.  Very few come straight in and dominate right out of the box.  Especially coming out as 1-year starters in a sheltering college offense.  Would you wager your job on a rookie QB in this class taking advantage of our defense before it implodes and taking you to the playoffs this year?

 

2)Spend the Foles money on what weapons exactly?  This year's FA receiver/TE/OLine market is bereft of top-end talent.  Lev Bell as a RB might genuinely be the best receiver on the FA market.  The TE group isn't any better.

whos to say Foles comes in here and plays like he did with the eagles. eagles have a way better collection of skill  guys plus a good OL.   let us not forget that the only coach/coordinator hes had success with is doug pederson. 

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Just now, LinderFournette said:

whos to say Foles comes in here and plays like he did with the eagles. eagles have a way better collection of skill  guys plus a good OL.   let us not forget that the only coach/coordinator hes had success with is doug pederson. 

Nobody is saying Foles is any kind of guarantee.

That's also not true.  He had his initial success with Chip Kelly, in addition to playing well under Pederson.  The only place he's really looked distinctly terrible as a starter...is under the same Jeff Fisher who proceeded to make Goff look like a worthless bust. 

We also have the guy who was working directly with Foles as the QB coach to have a firsthand look at what Foles needed to succeed in Philly...we made him our OC, for better or worse.  If Foles is going to replicate his success anywhere outside of Philly...that's a better starting point than most.

 

Philly does have a better offensive supporting cast, but that's what the discussion above is about.  That why, if you're going the Foles route...spending that #7 pick on a QB basically kneecaps Foles chances of success, depriving him of the most "valuable" piece we could put around him for this season.  That's not a cohesive plan...it's trying to fish in both ponds and making the situation worse for both QBs.

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18 minutes ago, DuvalsKing said:

The Jags are just happy to have a decent QB fall in their lap. Ultimately they think they can rekindle 2017 by taking Defilipo and Foles combined with their defense minus possibly Gipson, and Jackson that the defense will remain playing to the same level. They are are also hoping everyone stays healthy I hopes that they can keep Foles up right for 16 games. I love how everyone has amnesias and they forget when Philly was clamoring for Wentz to return basically rushing him back because Foles was so subpar at the beginning of last season but Wentz went down again and Foles did well down the stretch they get into the playoffs and Foles is the darling. It’s a lot of trust but you’ve still yet to see Foles play a full 16 games since probably Obama’s first term and your mortgaging your long term stability on a retread.

 

Everybody looking at this from the outside looking in Colts, Texans, and Titans are shrugging their shoulders because it’s just ehhh they got Foles so what. Nothing about Foles strikes fear into an opponent. You know what you’re going to get steady play with actual weapons.. wait til he gets to the Jags tool shed and it’s going to be fun to see an old soldier go to war with a Swiss Army knife. Jags are depending on Lee to catch the ball with  consistency 🙄 and Chark to step up 😆  Westbrook my take off with a decent QB.. but if that doesn’t work they expect a weapon such as a rookie TE or WR to bail out Foles. *sighs*

How is signing Foles trying to capture lightning in a bottle for a couple years "mortgaging your long-term stability" though?

If it doesn't work...we get a new staff, a high draft pick...and a promising crop of QBs coming up in the next couple years to potentially lust after for the long-term future.  We're back to the rebuilding drafting table, with a new architect.  But with our team aging out and pricing themselves out...we're headed there sooner or later either way.

 

I mean, if by "long-term stability" you mean, letting Dave Caldwell pick another QB and rebuild the team again for a second time...after his first rebuild and Top-5 QB pick led us to a grand total of...one playoff appearance in half a dozen years.  Then sure, jeopardizing that bigtime by going the Foles route.  xD  But i can't wrap my head around why anyone would want that.  Only way i could conceivably understand keeping Dave and Tom around, is if they manage to demonstrate that Bortles was the fatal flaw in their team's construction by getting this squad back to the playoffs this year.  

Like, if you're going to stick with Dave for this year (they are)...why not let him see his rebuild through to it's conclusion and see if he can salvage anything with Foles in place of Bortles with this team he's built?  Rather than saddling the next regime with an "orphan QB" from the prior regime that they have to build around?  Let them pick their own guy in 2020-2021 imo.

Why introduce murkiness between regimes?  Why throw Dave a potential lifeline toward a second chance at rebuilding this team around a second Top-5ish QB pick?  That'd be the worst thing for this team's long-term future imo.

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2 hours ago, Tugboat said:

How many QBs in the NFL is that honestly true of these days?  That's like, a small handful of the elite of the elite, HoF track QBs in their "prime" basically.  The rest all need some pretty significant weapons and protection, and a defense to lead a team anywhere.  There's obviously a range between a Foles and a Ryan/Rivers or what have you, but this idea that a rookie QB is going to come in and be Tom Brady without piling weapons on for him, i just don't buy it.  Some guys are obviously able to get more out of their surrounding cast than others as a "ceiling".  However, the vast majority in this parity-driven league are still pretty darn dependent on the quality of their surrounding cast to play up to their full potential.  Especially in the first few years.

Like...even the flavour of the year, GOAT in training, Patrick Mahomes...is playing with a really stout OLine they've invested a bundle in, the best TE in the league, and arguably the best WR-Weapon in Tyreek Hill, a gargantuan contract to get even more weapons in there with a guy like Sammy Watkins, and a solid running game with versatility.  He's completely surrounded by bigtime playmaking weapons whichever way he looks.  He's not being "carried"...but he's not doing anything close to what he accomplished if you swap him in with our sad sack offensive supporting cast from last year.

I'm not saying that he'd carry us as a rookie or anytime soon. But he has the potential to be that down the line and that's what matters. Drafting Hock/Taylor/Metcalf at 7 doesn't exponentially increase our offense next year most likely as is and who even knows if they end up working out.

Would rather take a shot on a QB like Haskins if he's there to sit back behind Foles if that gets done and have him in the wings. 

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4 hours ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

That Glennon contract was unbelievable just like the Bradford 1 yr deal too

My thing is if Haskins is that guy and we believe that. I personally think he could be, then why arent we just trading up for him? Give him the keys to the franchise, spend the Foles cap money on weapons?

 

Because we want to win now and depending on a rookie is super risky. Not to mention who knows how the FO feels about him taking the keys right away in a situation they believe to be a win now one.

Tons of examples of teams signing a guy and drafting a guy a month later high though. Bradford/Rosen is another one, although Foles contract will be longer.

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I'm not saying that he'd carry us as a rookie or anytime soon. But he has the potential to be that down the line and that's what matters. Drafting Hock/Taylor/Metcalf at 7 doesn't exponentially increase our offense next year most likely as is and who even knows if they end up working out.

Would rather take a shot on a QB like Haskins if he's there to sit back behind Foles if that gets done and have him in the wings. 

Sure, rookie WR/TE is no guarantee of much.  But unless they're heading directly to bustville without passing go, you're at least gonna get something out of a 7th overall pick type weapon as a rookie.  Heck, Foles made some hay with a rookie TE in Goedert just last year. 

Whereas Haskins at 7 would do absolutely diddly squat to help set Foles up to succeed.  In fact, worse than nothing...because you're then looking at a 7th overall pick that's going to create a guaranteed controversy the first time Foles throws an INT.  Or in the realistic event that Foles doesn't immediately settle in and put the Jaguars on a dominant playoff course.

 

I get that it'd be extremely difficult to pass on a guy like Haskins if he happens to be there at 7.  I just don't think that's a controversy that'd be helpful to induce.  Or that we have the resources to have our cake, and eat it too.  Even if there is some nice depth to this WR/TE/OL class.  We've got starter needs at all 3 spots, and probably have to find a Fowler replacement somewhere too.

Edited by Tugboat

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2 hours ago, Tugboat said:

Sure, rookie WR/TE is no guarantee of much.  But unless they're heading directly to bustville without passing go, you're at least gonna get something out of a 7th overall pick type weapon as a rookie.  Heck, Foles made some hay with a rookie TE in Goedert just last year. 

Whereas Haskins at 7 would do absolutely diddly squat to help set Foles up to succeed.  In fact, worse than nothing...because you're then looking at a 7th overall pick that's going to create a guaranteed controversy the first time Foles throws an INT.  Or in the realistic event that Foles doesn't immediately settle in and put the Jaguars on a dominant playoff course.

 

I get that it'd be extremely difficult to pass on a guy like Haskins if he happens to be there at 7.  I just don't think that's a controversy that'd be helpful to induce.  Or that we have the resources to have our cake, and eat it too.  Even if there is some nice depth to this WR/TE/OL class.  We've got starter needs at all 3 spots, and probably have to find a Fowler replacement somewhere too.

counting on foles to be a good starter here regardless of what we invest the other resources in for weapons, and OL) is completely ridicolous.  coughlin stood still on cousins and im sure hes gonna do the same with foles and let someone overpay for him.  much rather do something like 2 years 10 million for teddy or tyrod and draft haskins because haskins is the damn truth at qb.   hell Mayfield came from an easy passing offense and did pretty well with the limited talent he had at wr and to a point at te). 

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On 05/03/2019 at 6:19 PM, LinderFournette said:

counting on foles to be a good starter here regardless of what we invest the other resources in for weapons, and OL) is completely ridicolous.  coughlin stood still on cousins and im sure hes gonna do the same with foles and let someone overpay for him.  much rather do something like 2 years 10 million for teddy or tyrod and draft haskins because haskins is the damn truth at qb.   hell Mayfield came from an easy passing offense and did pretty well with the limited talent he had at wr and to a point at te). 

I don't think the Cousins vs Foles thing is really that comparable though.  I don't see Foles getting that same kind of multi-year fully guaranteed mega contract that Cousins landed.  Cousins was being courted by teams as "The Answer" at QB, that they'd be pretty married to for a while.  Whereas it seems Foles is being looked at more as a shorter-term "Bridge Guy" in essence.  Especially with where the Veteran QB Trade/FA market has gone this offseason.

 

I mean, i'd be fine if they go the Haskins route and grab a guy like Teddy or even Tyrod.  But how much cheaper is Teddy even gonna be compared to Foles?  They're basically all playing musical chairs and when the music stops...they're gonna want to have a contract and a chance to start.  Only so many places left up for grabs...especially now that Washington have done a Keenum thing.

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5 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

So is this looking like less of a slam dunk now?

it always has been less of a slam dunk.   haskins is our best bet qb wise so we likely will need to trade up to get him and spend some money on the help. 

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3 minutes ago, LinderFournette said:

it always has been less of a slam dunk.   haskins is our best bet qb wise so we likely will need to trade up to get him and spend some money on the help. 

I'm fine with that but it did seem at one point Foles was ours as the suitors were dwindling to begin with

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31 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

So is this looking like less of a slam dunk now?

I mean, I don't think much has changed.

We may like Teddy some, but I think it's also a ploy to down Foles market/cost as well.

Washington and Denver are off the board. Hasn't sounded like Miami is much of an option really. Think it's still heavily likely us.

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31 minutes ago, JaguarCrazy2832 said:

I'm fine with that but it did seem at one point Foles was ours as the suitors were dwindling to begin with

tbh Foles isnt much of an upgrade over Bortles statisticly using career numbers. 

Foles: 61.6% completion percentage 4.3% td percentage 2.1% int percentage  6.33 Net yards per pass attempt 5.3% Sack Percentage 2.5% fumble percentage on carries

Bortles: 59.3% completion percentage 3.9% TD percentage 2.8% INT percentage 5.83 net yards per pass attempt 6.9% sack percentage 1.6% Fumble percentage on carries

 

blakes below average but foles is just an average joe. no need to pay 15+ for average when he needs a strong supporting cast(IE better OL and Skill players) to perform as good as he did last few years. 

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20 minutes ago, .Buzz said:

I mean, I don't think much has changed.

We may like Teddy some, but I think it's also a ploy to down Foles market/cost as well.

Washington and Denver are off the board. Hasn't sounded like Miami is much of an option really. Think it's still heavily likely us.

and hopefully we tell him 10 million take it or leave it :)

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