SSG Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 43 minutes ago, packfanfb said: Eh, i think Jaylon Smith and LVE by the second half of last year were both playing over 70% of the snaps for Dallas. They were both good enough to keep on the field. If Martinez's snaps suffer with the addition of an athlete like White, that just says something about some of Martinez's limitations, but overall, I don't think the dip would be as dramatic as you think because the only reason why there has been such a disparity lately in GB with ILB snaps is because our ILB crew has sucked pretty much other than Martinez from an athletic standpoint. When you have average athletes at ILB, you're going to use guys like Burnett and Jones in those roles versus a Jake Ryan. When you have Devin White, you don't have to do that. Dallas' defensive scheme is ENTIRELY different. Unless Pettine is going to change 100% of what he did last year and over his career what Dallas was able to do doesn't matter. I don't see how that comparison is relevant to what Green Bay does. It's like saying we should draft a RB in the first because San Francisco was able to get Kyle Juszczyk and their starting RB on the field together a ton. IMO, in today's NFL, we aren't in sub packages because of the lack of talent at ILB. The ONLY thing adding White does is it puts one of our 3 or 4 best defenders on the bench for the vast majority of the defensive snaps. Even if they could co-exist on the same defense at ILB (I think it would be a struggle), the playing time together is minimal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I think the FA signing numbers are a little unreasonable. I like the direction in general though. I'm happy to see Monreau test well (almost too well, he might slip into the third now). As a blocker he will have a role on the team as a rookie, and then he has traits to develop as a receiver. Not the highest upside guy, but a guy who will be able to stick in the league awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pacman5252 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 I don't get the hate for White at 12 in this situation. Pettine used his ILBs very aggressively in NY and in this situation we are signed Barr. White could easily get 5-8 sacks next year here and be a big boost in coverage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 34 minutes ago, SSG said: Even if they could co-exist on the same defense at ILB (I think it would be a struggle), the playing time together is minimal. Does Martinez stay on the field with Burks now (?) or does he come off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 44 minutes ago, Leader said: Does Martinez stay on the field with Burks now (?) or does he come off? We don't really know as Burks hasn't seen the field. As it stands now, Martinez is the only LB on the field in sub packages. They've gone to using more safeties. To be fair, I saw plenty of safeties in position to make plays, they just haven't been able to finish the play off. Pleasant being the guy that I most frequently remember having open shots and flat out missing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
packfanfb Posted March 4, 2019 Author Share Posted March 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, pacman5252 said: I don't get the hate for White at 12 in this situation. Pettine used his ILBs very aggressively in NY and in this situation we are signed Barr. White could easily get 5-8 sacks next year here and be a big boost in coverage. Good point, and also, his ILBs were a staple of that defense. While it was certainly huge having Revis island at CB, the NYJ's high-ranking defenses in 2009 and 2010 relied a lot on the combo of David Harris and Bart Scott in Pettine's defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 5 minutes ago, vegas492 said: We don't really know as Burks hasn't seen the field. As it stands now, Martinez is the only LB on the field in sub packages. They've gone to using more safeties. To be fair, I saw plenty of safeties in position to make plays, they just haven't been able to finish the play off. Pleasant being the guy that I most frequently remember having open shots and flat out missing them. Okay - there's my answer. Martinez sticks much pretty much throughout. Well - if White's got the goods - I can see him paired up with Martinez. Some folks are more down on the ILB position than I am. A playmaker in the middle of the D? I kinda like the concept - which is what Dallas is enjoying now - and Chicago is enjoying now - and............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 7 minutes ago, Leader said: Okay - there's my answer. Martinez sticks much pretty much throughout. Well - if White's got the goods - I can see him paired up with Martinez. Some folks are more down on the ILB position than I am. A playmaker in the middle of the D? I kinda like the concept - which is what Dallas is enjoying now - and Chicago is enjoying now - and............ Man, I totally get what you are saying, and I'm not discounting your thoughts or what other teams are doing...like not at all. Dallas and Chicago play more man or zone? I ask because I don't know. Without looking it up, I'm more inclined to say "zone". Are we a zone team or a man team? I'd say more man than zone. Dallas has Lawrence on the EDGE. Chicago has that other guy... GB has...Fackrell? Being strong at ILB is great, but you need an EDGE or two. I'd argue you need that first. Grab Trey Flowers in FA and now I'm more inclined to listen about the benefits of White at ILB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leader Posted March 4, 2019 Share Posted March 4, 2019 41 minutes ago, vegas492 said: Man, I totally get what you are saying, and I'm not discounting your thoughts or what other teams are doing...like not at all. Dallas and Chicago play more man or zone? I ask because I don't know. Without looking it up, I'm more inclined to say "zone". Are we a zone team or a man team? I'd say more man than zone. Dallas has Lawrence on the EDGE. Chicago has that other guy... GB has...Fackrell? Being strong at ILB is great, but you need an EDGE or two. I'd argue you need that first. Grab Trey Flowers in FA and now I'm more inclined to listen about the benefits of White at ILB. No arguement necessary. I agree. We need some sort of EDGE pressure. Its "effectively" been lacking for a few years now. Fackrell's numbers considered. But - and this is where it gets into the gray / talent evaluation place - if the top EDGE guys are gone in the top 10 - it gets down to whats there at 12? Is White better than the 4th-5th best EDGE guy? Could he be used as effectively? I'd tend to think probably so - but I'm content to leave those judgements to others. As for zone vs man coverages.....I'd answer that you play the D your personnel can pull off best - against whomever you happen to be playing. Btw - I tend to doubt that Flowers makes it to the FA market. I think he's one of the top tier guys on everybody's radar screen - so I think he'll get tied down or bought off well before GB gets a play on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWood21 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 5 hours ago, packfanfb said: Eh, i think Jaylon Smith and LVE by the second half of last year were both playing over 70% of the snaps for Dallas. They were both good enough to keep on the field. If Martinez's snaps suffer with the addition of an athlete like White, that just says something about some of Martinez's limitations, but overall, I don't think the dip would be as dramatic as you think because the only reason why there has been such a disparity lately in GB with ILB snaps is because our ILB crew has sucked pretty much other than Martinez from an athletic standpoint. When you have average athletes at ILB, you're going to use guys like Burnett and Jones in those roles versus a Jake Ryan. When you have Devin White, you don't have to do that. If you want that 5th DB, you have to take someone off the field. Who are you taking off the field? Another DL? One of your pass rushers? Most teams are taking their "extra" OBLB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jleisher Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 Love the thought of Barr/White/Martinez/Smith as the Linebackers and you covered the Safety positions nicely. I would only draft one other Edge player and then focus on better OL players, but, that's just me. I could live with this, thanks! Nice job! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Starr2Max Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 As far as June 1st cuts, do we have to designate a rookie pool early or could you plan on using the June 1st savings to sign the Rooks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vegas492 Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 16 hours ago, Leader said: No arguement necessary. I agree. We need some sort of EDGE pressure. Its "effectively" been lacking for a few years now. Fackrell's numbers considered. But - and this is where it gets into the gray / talent evaluation place - if the top EDGE guys are gone in the top 10 - it gets down to whats there at 12? Is White better than the 4th-5th best EDGE guy? Could he be used as effectively? I'd tend to think probably so - but I'm content to leave those judgements to others. As for zone vs man coverages.....I'd answer that you play the D your personnel can pull off best - against whomever you happen to be playing. Btw - I tend to doubt that Flowers makes it to the FA market. I think he's one of the top tier guys on everybody's radar screen - so I think he'll get tied down or bought off well before GB gets a play on him. I bolded the question...to me (me only), is White better than the 4'th or 5'th best edge guy? That is an easy one for me. No, he is not. Bosa/Allen/Burns/Sweat/Ferrell. Assuming that Bosa and Allen are gone, I'd take any of those and maybe Polite (need to see his pro day) over the off ball linebacker, White. And in the same breath? I wouldn't pitch a hissy fit if White was the choice. I can see the attraction to him. If he's the pick, (I think like you), I'd assume that Pettine will find a way to make it work. And....that would probably mean GB is moving on from Martinez after this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 18 hours ago, pacman5252 said: I don't get the hate for White at 12 in this situation. Pettine used his ILBs very aggressively in NY and in this situation we are signed Barr. White could easily get 5-8 sacks next year here and be a big boost in coverage. It don't think anyone hates White. I see him as a poor fit next to Martinez and I don't believe it's worth the cost for the amount we are in our base. We'd be essentially moving one of our 2 or 3 best defenders to the bench for 60-70% of the game. In today's NFL, I don't think adding White is going to limit the use of that 5th DB. An ILB is going to be spending the vast majority of the games on the bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SSG Posted March 5, 2019 Share Posted March 5, 2019 19 hours ago, Leader said: Does Martinez stay on the field with Burks now (?) or does he come off? Martinez, who played almost 99% of our defensive snaps stayed on the field last year. If we were to spend our #12 on White, he'd surely be the one seeing Martinez's share of snaps given the investment. We had 3 games where that second ILB played more than 50% of the snaps and and a couple more where Burks and Morrison combined for more than 50%. Green Bay used 1 LB for the majority of their defensive snaps last year. If we fix our safety position, I expect that number of snaps with 2 ILBs on the field to decrease. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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