Clowney gets Franchise Tag

[Pastor Dillon]

Clowney isn’t going anywhere. He will sign and play for us this year. 

With the division being open, we might as well go all in on this season as best we can and at least have a tough D

[tab]

My thought is that we should be trying to offer clowney to some loaded Win Now team like the Rams or Eagles, somewhere that would be fine letting him either walk or stay next year, for either o-line depth or RB help. First thought is Malcolm Brown or something.

edit: or maybe jordan howard

Edited August 25, 2019 by tab

[jrry32]

8 hours ago, tab said:

My thought is that we should be trying to offer clowney to some loaded Win Now team like the Rams or Eagles, somewhere that would be fine letting him either walk or stay next year, for either o-line depth or RB help. First thought is Malcolm Brown or something.

edit: or maybe jordan howard

Y'all could get an effective HB (if your OL can open holes) for a late-round pick. Clowney is worth much more than that. I'd love him on the Rams, but I don't see what we could offer. I guess we could offer a WR, but I don't want to break up the trio we have for a guy who might be a one-year rental.

[ET80]

2 hours ago, jrry32 said:

Y'all could get an effective HB (if your OL can open holes) for a late-round pick. Clowney is worth much more than that. I'd love him on the Rams, but I don't see what we could offer. I guess we could offer a WR, but I don't want to break up the trio we have for a guy who might be a one-year rental.

Yeah, I agree on this. Unless I'm getting Larmey Tunsil or another LT who has upside as a potential top 10/top 5 guy at LT, I'm not trading Clowney. Or... unless someone is giving me a Khalil Mack type yield of picks, I'm not trading Clowney.

With the cap space the Texans have over the next three seasons, there's nothing preventing the team from tagging Clowney two more times (unless there is some radical change to the tag following the next CBA negotiation). Clowney won't be happy, but if this situation tells me anything - it tells me our FO doesn't put much stock in how happy Clowney is. 

[Pastor Dillon]

3 hours ago, ET80 said:

Yeah, I agree on this. Unless I'm getting Larmey Tunsil or another LT who has upside as a potential top 10/top 5 guy at LT, I'm not trading Clowney. Or... unless someone is giving me a Khalil Mack type yield of picks, I'm not trading Clowney.

With the cap space the Texans have over the next three seasons, there's nothing preventing the team from tagging Clowney two more times (unless there is some radical change to the tag following the next CBA negotiation). Clowney won't be happy, but if this situation tells me anything - it tells me our FO doesn't put much stock in how happy Clowney is. 

I think it’s fair to say that our team understands how talented and lazy Clowney is. 

Dude could be just as good as prime JJ Watt but only plays full speed 20% of the time. I think we are scared that he’s gonna get paid and mail it in. 

[Apollo Stallion]

11 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

I think it’s fair to say that our team understands how talented and lazy Clowney is. 

Dude could be just as good as prime JJ Watt but only plays full speed 20% of the time. I think we are scared that he’s gonna get paid and mail it in. 

I'll go ahead and save this for when JJ's fiance pulls the goalkeeper and starts popping out little dribblers, and he pulls an Andrew Luck and retires next offseason on his $100 million nestegg and a series of $20 million hosting gigs sitting next to Katy Perry. If you don't think this warm fuzzy hugfest for Andrew Luck isn't giving every "good guy" $100 million-aire millenial football player carte blanche to retire with their "brand and brain" in tact, you are dreaming.  If you think Watt is cut from a different hard-nosed football family cloth, I submit Gronk who is the exact same age with much less severe injuries. Hell the Texans have already established that you can lie, cheat, and steal from this franchise and still be welcomed with open arms as we've done with Watt's future brother in-law, Cushing, so Watt will probably be permitted to sign a new $100 million deal and walk with the bonus while we couldn't give D. Brown the courtesy of guaranteeing a season playing at a salary he would be easily earning this season.  The McNair's prefer the top of their payroll be filled with white "workman-like" players who fit the profile we have chosen since pick 1 where bible beating high school sweetheart marrying David Carr was chosen over scary future hall of famer Julius Peppers.  Cushing "supports the troops" and gets to ride out his career at full salary on a contract signed AFTER a crippling injury dwarfing his market value, but Foster, A. Johnson, D. Brown, Ryans are kicked to the curb lest they be paid a dollar despite "sacrificing" their bodies for this franchise.  Sure Nuk got paid, but let's not forget that was the same season we paid  -name redacted- $72 million to throw to him because he sat at the right hand of Elway, Manning royalty and came from a good christian military home.

What the hell in Clowney's record indicates that he is lazy or will "mail it in" once he gets paid?  He rehabbed and came back from an injury that has ended many careers before they even started (remember that guy taken BEFORE Kevin Durant?  Oden.  How about Reggie Bush post-mf?).  He's made $51 million by age 25 which is what "mail it in poster child" Albert Haynesworth made at 30. Remind me at what point he "mailed it in" during the 4 win 2017 season that finished 1-8 after the bye week where Cushing got a mandatory 10 game vacation, we had a QB depth chart of Heinicke, Yates, J.Johnson, and Watt, Watson, Savage, Mercilus, N. Martin, Covington, Reader, Scarlett, Fido, Griffin, Foreman, Newton, on IR? I am not saying that Clowney is JJ Watt, but if resigned he will EASILY be the 2nd best defensive player in franchise history including our other former #1 pick who I was happy we did not resign in Mario Williams who unlike Clowney was a paycheck player and stat padder who never beat a T above replacement level or played in a game that mattered.  

Clowney is closer to the Connor Barwin "glue" of this team (who's defense fell apart without him but WITH JJ Watt) and will likely explode when not having to do all the dirty unglamorous work that nearly everyone agrees is the starting point of everything a team does defensively (stop the run).  As a reminder, this franchise has had exactly 3 players who have ever put up 9.5 sacks as Clowney has the past two seasons Mario (twice), Mercilus (once), Barwin (once), so we need to stop acting as if Duke Ejiofor, Brennan Scarlett, Angelo Blackson, and Charles Omenihu who have a combined 4 sacks between them will be able to even sniff his statistical production (including 2nd all-time tackles for loss already in essentially 3.5 seasons) better yet, the opportunities accounting for him makes for Watt, Reader and whatever rotating low rent scrub we stick at RE. It is absolutely absurd that this is even being entertained as it didn't make sense for even a bottom barrel rebuilding Raiders team, better yet a franchise sitting on the cusp of being the team that along with KC should be the heir apparent to the Pats while also being flush with the 2nd most cap space in the NFL. 

The guy may not put up Von Miller stats and is guilty of the crime of not being as good as Khalil Mack who didn't enter the league with knee requiring reconstruction but aside from them and maybe Miles Garrett, there is not another OLB in the league I could think of swapping him for, better yet some WR/RB or whatever sub Duane Brown LT we settle for.  This entire exercise has been an episode of "just how clueless do the press and fan bases think the Texans are" and our fan base raising our hands and saying "probably us" on our way to bottoming out for the 4th time instead of actually seizing the best window of opportunity in franchise history which only exists for the next 2-3 seasons with Watson, Hop, Fuller, Watt, Clowney, McKinney, Cunningham, Reid.  There is no draft pick that is as sure a thing as our current Pro Bowl OLB and not one player on our team not under contract for the next two years leaving us well under the cap even if we made Clowney the high paid defensive player in the game, which is NOT what he is demanding. We are $36 million under the cap while paying him as a top 5 OLB, and we will have even MORE space the next two years if we backload. We are paying Matt Kalil and Aaron Colvin more combined this year than we will pay Clowney next year!!!  What part are people missing other than that we have given a barely .500 coach who chose Savage over Watson or to start Ryan Griffin for 2 seasons personnel power?  Stop the insanity!      

Edited August 27, 2019 by Apollo Stallion

[Pastor Dillon]

1 hour ago, Apollo Stallion said:

I'll go ahead and save this for when JJ's fiance pulls the goalkeeper and starts popping out little dribblers, and he pulls an Andrew Luck and retires next offseason on his $100 million nestegg and a series of $20 million hosting gigs sitting next to Katy Perry. If you don't think this warm fuzzy hugfest for Andrew Luck isn't giving every "good guy" $100 million-aire millenial football player carte blanche to retire with their "brand and brain" in tact, you are dreaming.  If you think Watt is cut from a different hard-nosed football family cloth, I submit Gronk who is the exact same age with much less severe injuries. Hell the Texans have already established that you can lie, cheat, and steal from this franchise and still be welcomed with open arms as we've done with Watt's future brother in-law, Cushing, so Watt will probably be permitted to sign a new $100 million deal and walk with the bonus while we couldn't give D. Brown the courtesy of guaranteeing a season playing at a salary he would be easily earning this season.  The McNair's prefer the top of their payroll be filled with white "workman-like" players who fit the profile we have chosen since pick 1 where bible beating high school sweetheart marrying David Carr was chosen over scary future hall of famer Julius Peppers.  Cushing "supports the troops" and gets to ride out his career at full salary on a contract signed AFTER a crippling injury dwarfing his market value, but Foster, A. Johnson, D. Brown, Ryans are kicked to the curb lest they be paid a dollar despite "sacrificing" their bodies for this franchise.  Sure Nuk got paid, but let's not forget that was the same season we paid  -name redacted- $72 million to throw to him because he sat at the right hand of Elway, Manning royalty and came from a good christian military home.

What the hell in Clowney's record indicates that he is lazy or will "mail it in" once he gets paid?  He rehabbed and came back from an injury that has ended many careers before they even started (remember that guy taken BEFORE Kevin Durant?  Oden.  How about Reggie Bush post-mf?).  He's made $51 million by age 25 which is what "mail it in poster child" Albert Haynesworth made at 30. Remind me at what point he "mailed it in" during the 4 win 2017 season that finished 1-8 after the bye week where Cushing got a mandatory 10 game vacation, we had a QB depth chart of Heinicke, Yates, J.Johnson, and Watt, Watson, Savage, Mercilus, N. Martin, Covington, Reader, Scarlett, Fido, Griffin, Foreman, Newton, on IR? I am not saying that Clowney is JJ Watt, but if resigned he will EASILY be the 2nd best defensive player in franchise history including our other former #1 pick who I was happy we did not resign in Mario Williams who unlike Clowney was a paycheck player and stat padder who never beat a T above replacement level or played in a game that mattered.  

Clowney is closer to the Connor Barwin "glue" of this team (who's defense fell apart without him but WITH JJ Watt) and will likely explode when not having to do all the dirty unglamorous work that nearly everyone agrees is the starting point of everything a team does defensively (stop the run).  As a reminder, this franchise has had exactly 3 players who have ever put up 9.5 sacks as Clowney has the past two seasons Mario (twice), Mercilus (once), Barwin (once), so we need to stop acting as if Duke Ejiofor, Brennan Scarlett, Angelo Blackson, and Charles Omenihu who have a combined 4 sacks between them will be able to even sniff his statistical production (including 2nd all-time tackles for loss already in essentially 3.5 seasons) better yet, the opportunities accounting for him makes for Watt, Reader and whatever rotating low rent scrub we stick at RE. It is absolutely absurd that this is even being entertained as it didn't make sense for even a bottom barrel rebuilding Raiders team, better yet a franchise sitting on the cusp of being the team that along with KC should be the heir apparent to the Pats while also being flush with the 2nd most cap space in the NFL. 

The guy may not put up Von Miller stats and is guilty of the crime of not being as good as Khalil Mack who didn't enter the league with knee requiring reconstruction but aside from them and maybe Miles Garrett, there is not another OLB in the league I could think of swapping him for, better yet some WR/RB or whatever sub Duane Brown LT we settle for.  This entire exercise has been an episode of "just how clueless do the press and fan bases think the Texans are" and our fan base raising our hands and saying "probably us" on our way to bottoming out for the 4th time instead of actually seizing the best window of opportunity in franchise history which only exists for the next 2-3 seasons with Watson, Hop, Fuller, Watt, Clowney, McKinney, Cunningham, Reid.  There is no draft pick that is as sure a thing as our current Pro Bowl OLB and not one player on our team not under contract for the next two years leaving us well under the cap even if we made Clowney the high paid defensive player in the game, which is NOT what he is demanding. We are $36 million under the cap while paying him as a top 5 OLB, and we will have even MORE space the next two years if we backload. We are paying Matt Kalil and Aaron Colvin more combined this year than we will pay Clowney next year!!!  What part are people missing other than that we have given a barely .500 coach who chose Savage over Watson or to start Ryan Griffin for 2 seasons personnel power?  Stop the insanity!      

If you don’t think Clowney is lazy at times and disappears for games at a time, then I really don’t think you watch the Texans. 

[Apollo Stallion]

1 hour ago, Pastor Dillon said:

If you don’t think Clowney is lazy at times and disappears for games at a time, then I really don’t think you watch the Texans. 

He has played in 62 games.  He has NEVER gone a stretch of 3 games without either a sack or a tackle for loss. He has gone back to back games without a sack or tfl only 3 times in his entire career. Khalil Mack has gone back to back games 7 times without a sack or TFL in his career.  I'm not sure how you define "disappearing", but to me it looks more like Mario who racked up his season's worth of stats in 4 games against dregs and replacement starters vs. Clowney who is always racking up tackles and wreaking havoc even if he goes a game without registering a glamour stat.  If anything, I'd say he's over-aggressive at times with the offsides penalties.    

I have watched or attended all but 4 games in 17 years of this franchise and I can say I have seen more poor effort plays and games by first ballot Texan ring of honor players (if it existed) Deandre Hopkins and Andre Johnson than I have ever seen by Clowney.  Hell, Deshaun Watson looked mentally checked out last time we saw him in a game that mattered and his unit only managed one TD late in a playoff game at home, Nuk's long play was all of 13 yards and JJ Watt touched Luck once all day while Clowney at least got 5 tackles.   Clowney never comes off the field unlike our other LBs Mercilus, McKinney, and Cunningham and LE's/DT so aside from JJ Watt who may be the most relentless player with the best motor of all time, Clowney is asked to do the most considering he's doing way more than just rushing the passer including .  Again, if Watt and Watson are the people we are holding Clowney up to, than that's a comp Clowney will lose like the other 99.5% of the league, but then again, Clowney has also played in all but 3 games in the past three years, so Clowney's actually there week in and week out, so he's got em there. 

Edited August 27, 2019 by Apollo Stallion

[ET80]

19 minutes ago, Apollo Stallion said:

He has gone back to back games without a sack or tfl only 3 times in his entire career. Khalil Mack has gone back to back games 7 times without a sack or TFL in his career

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. Source? Not saying it isn't true, just interested to see the data behind it.

That's actually a pretty insane stat if you think about it.

[Apollo Stallion]

48 minutes ago, ET80 said:

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this. Source? Not saying it isn't true, just interested to see the data behind it.

That's actually a pretty insane stat if you think about it.

Game logs and counting on my fingers.  Two straight double zero's & I lift a finger - didn't finish one hand.  You dare question my analytical prowess or methods? Morey and Luhnow trust these fingers, man - not my fault the McNair's are too busy counting money or giving right wingers the reach around to use theirs. 

I didn't check playoff games, but since the Texans have never played more than 2 in a season, I figured I was safe there.  FWIW - I also checked Von Miller to try to bolster my argument, but I think I found 1 or 2 2 game stretches in his 8 year career - a friggin machine, that one is.  

[soflbillsfan]

Can this clowney thing get done on where he is being traded? I am tired of being said by media he is being moved with in the next 24-48 hours. 

As a non texan fan I think he is gone simply because he would have committed to coming in a day after week 3 of preseason. the fact he isnt in proves that him and the organization have run its course and the relationship is non repairable. Clowney is probably waiting for the team he desires to play with, call his agent up to see what it will take to get him to that city, so he has some say as to where he is going to go and not be pushed out. I think the teams that are actually interested is not mutual on Clowney's part, which is why he hasnt signed his tender. Once he signs his tender he will be traded with in the hour if it isn't announced all at once.

To me I think the Dolphins thing is made up of interest as they are in no way to win now and are in a complete rebuild, so why put the money in to a guy who wouldnt be able to contend until year 3-4 of his contract? Why would a team give up one of the only 2 good pieces on the team in Tunsil who is still dirt cheap on his rookie contract especially if you plan on getting a qb in one of the next 2 drafts as this is a key piece? Eagles do not need a pass rusher so I do not see them giving up something worth it to get one. Washington already said no to trading Trent Williams with rumored offers on the board of a 1st round pick. Bills have a connection and as much as I am hoping they pull the trigger to get him I dont think their GM wants to commit to giving up a piece they have and future draft prospects for him as he is a firm believer in building through the draft. Jets are the only desperate team that can over pay for his services but they do not have anything to offer that will impact the texans this year. Seattle has been talked about but why trade your stud Pass Rusher if you do not want to pay one big money so why then trade for clowney? All in all I hope this is resolved this week and as a bills fan i hope its to the NFC if it isnt the bills.

[Pastor Dillon]

12 hours ago, Apollo Stallion said:

He has played in 62 games.  He has NEVER gone a stretch of 3 games without either a sack or a tackle for loss. He has gone back to back games without a sack or tfl only 3 times in his entire career. Khalil Mack has gone back to back games 7 times without a sack or TFL in his career.  I'm not sure how you define "disappearing", but to me it looks more like Mario who racked up his season's worth of stats in 4 games against dregs and replacement starters vs. Clowney who is always racking up tackles and wreaking havoc even if he goes a game without registering a glamour stat.  If anything, I'd say he's over-aggressive at times with the offsides penalties.    

I have watched or attended all but 4 games in 17 years of this franchise and I can say I have seen more poor effort plays and games by first ballot Texan ring of honor players (if it existed) Deandre Hopkins and Andre Johnson than I have ever seen by Clowney.  Hell, Deshaun Watson looked mentally checked out last time we saw him in a game that mattered and his unit only managed one TD late in a playoff game at home, Nuk's long play was all of 13 yards and JJ Watt touched Luck once all day while Clowney at least got 5 tackles.   Clowney never comes off the field unlike our other LBs Mercilus, McKinney, and Cunningham and LE's/DT so aside from JJ Watt who may be the most relentless player with the best motor of all time, Clowney is asked to do the most considering he's doing way more than just rushing the passer including .  Again, if Watt and Watson are the people we are holding Clowney up to, than that's a comp Clowney will lose like the other 99.5% of the league, but then again, Clowney has also played in all but 3 games in the past three years, so Clowney's actually there week in and week out, so he's got em there. 

It’s obvious that you have some irrational bias towards Clowney, so we really can’t have this conversation. 1 TFL doesn’t mean he wasn’t absent most of the game. I’m glad you looked at box score numbers though because that tells the story. 

[amazingandre]

2 hours ago, Pastor Dillon said:

It’s obvious that you have some irrational bias towards Clowney, so we really can’t have this conversation. 1 TFL doesn’t mean he wasn’t absent most of the game. I’m glad you looked at box score numbers though because that tells the story. 

I would argue that if anyone on this board is irrational lately, it's you. Your hate for OB and Clowney pour out of you with every post. 

[Pastor Dillon]

46 minutes ago, amazingandre said:

I would argue that if anyone on this board is irrational lately, it's you. Your hate for OB and Clowney pour out of you with every post. 

Hate for BOB is nearly shared by every poster in here. I don’t hate Clowney. When he shows up, he’s a dominate player. He just doesn’t always show up and I can’t Understand how you don’t see that. 

[Pastor Dillon]

Just look at the numbers. Clowney wants to be paid like a top 5 defensive players. He’s a former #1 overall pick who has 29 sacks and 4 forced fumbles and 0 INTs in 5 seasons. He’s never recorded over 41 solo tackles  

he makes big plays and a few times a season has a monster game  and then will have games where he is completely unnoticeable.

We have plenty of money so I’m not even opposed to just paying the guy but the only thing he’s top 5 in is most over rated players.